Cobra IRS cradle question

thegreatpumpkin

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Hi all, quick question, can't find the answer online. I'm considering using a complete 2004 IRS unit in a custom project (65 Galaxie). Obviously I'll need to make mounts and braces for the existing frame. Question is, what's the distance between the four mounting points of the 04 IRS cradle and what's the front-to-rear mounting angle for correct geometry? Just want to get a general idea of the feasibility of this idea. (The 2015 IRS hub width is a bit too wide although the mounting would be easier). Thanks all
 

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Welcome to the forums! Youll be glad you joined, because we got plenty of knowledge floating around here and the best part is the professionalism of the people here. We all take the time to help one another with respectful responses. None of that degrade bashing typically found on other social media platforms. So welcome along.

I know nothing about an irs swap, but there are a few here that have performed the swap and know the curveballs associated with it. They will eventually respond. Typically within a 24hr period. Goodluck with your project.

Oh by the way. We have "build thread" here. Its a great way to track your mustangs history with all the improvements you do, plus you showcase to everyone else and we love pictures! Its alot of fun! And years later, you can reflect on your build and see its evaluation in one thread.
 

cobrajeff96

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You're in luck. I actually have an IRS subframe sitting right outside. I'll get some measurements posted up. Keep in mind it's a +/- kind of thing especially once mounted to an actual frame as these things are somewhat elastic (but that's a good thing believe it or not).
 
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thegreatpumpkin

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You're in luck. I actually have an IRS subframe sitting right outside. I'll get some measurements posted up. Keep in mind it's a +/- kind of thing especially once mounted to an actual frame as these things are somewhat elastic (but that's a good thing believe it or not).
Dude, thanks! And yeah everything bends. Approximate measurements ok. Do you have a reference angles for the mounting? Curious if the IRS mounts are at the same height front to back or if it sits at an angle
 

cobrajeff96

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The fronts are kind of straight forward but they do taper inward a bit like pigeon feet (toe in). The rears are kind of twisted concentrically along their upright axis. So yea, it's weird. The rear frame to subframe brackets I haven't used in a long time, and I destroyed them when upfitting the new IRS into the car (pic below) because they were actually partially welded. The new carrier has solid plate stock in order to bolt directly to the car's frame.

Last pic is of an unmodified IRS subframe (with some expanding foam oozing out, lol).
 

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thegreatpumpkin

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Yeah the mounts do look weird. Not an issue, I just need it to not be hugely different in spacing from the 65 Galaxie
 

cobrajeff96

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When it stops raining I'll head outside and get the measurements.
 

lwarrior1016

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The fronts are kind of straight forward but they do taper inward a bit like pigeon feet (toe in). The rears are kind of twisted concentrically along their upright axis. So yea, it's weird. The rear frame to subframe brackets I haven't used in a long time, and I destroyed them when upfitting the new IRS into the car (pic below) because they were actually partially welded. The new carrier has solid plate stock in order to bolt directly to the car's frame.

Last pic is of an unmodified IRS subframe (with some expanding foam oozing out, lol).
Expanding foam, why? I need to know this and I need to know if it’s something I should be doing! Lol
 

cobrajeff96

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Eh, it was just experimental, the thought process being that it acts as a barrier to moisture ingress and that (maybe) it could dampen incoming NVH from the control arms, their bushings, and into the subframe and beyond. I haven't driven enough to really notice a difference, honestly. I plan to do it to the new subframe but probably not as much. I literally filled the original subframe such that it was gushing out of the holes and seams. If anything, it'd be better to introduce pockets of it so that sound frequencies can change throughout the interior volume of the steel tubes. Oscillations and such would have a better damping effect, if any. Proably not worth the hassle in the end, just being straight with you.
 

cobrajeff96

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Tomorrow's fine man, I'm just glad to get a response
Alright, so...

All measurements were taken from the outboard sides of the bushing faces, just FYI.

Front:
Side to side is 97cm

Rear:
Side to side is 117cm

Front to Rear:
62cm

And if you looks at the attached pic, this is what I had to resort to in order for the subframe to actually slip into and around the frame rails because it was such a tight fit (but the tighter the better when it comes to chassis and suspension). But it'll be slightly different in your case because the rear mounts of an OEM subframe will slip into a set of what they call cantilever mounts which is what the car was originally rocking. The front pickups though (the torque boxes in the chassis of the car) you will want to spread with a threaded rod and some sturdy, oversized washers. Makes life hella easy.
 

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thegreatpumpkin

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Alright, so...

All measurements were taken from the outboard sides of the bushing faces, just FYI.

Front:
Side to side is 97cm

Rear:
Side to side is 117cm

Front to Rear:
62cm

And if you looks at the attached pic, this is what I had to resort to in order for the subframe to actually slip into and around the frame rails because it was such a tight fit (but the tighter the better when it comes to chassis and suspension). But it'll be slightly different in your case because the rear mounts of an OEM subframe will slip into a set of what they call cantilever mounts which is what the car was originally rocking. The front pickups though (the torque boxes in the chassis of the car) you will want to spread with a threaded rod and some sturdy, oversized washers. Makes life hella easy.
Got it, thanks so much. I'll have some flexibility with the mounting bc it'll be all custom to the Galaxie. Did you use aftermarket rear cradle mounts, and if so, from who? Any tips for increasing stiffness of the cradle itself, like gusset locations?
Also, is there any part of the cradle that I can reference to 0-degrees i.e. how do I get the installed angle front-to-rear correct?
 

cobrajeff96

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I'm currently rocking the Kenny Brown version of the Cobra IRS, which is just an OEM core that they put in their jig and re-weld all the control arm mounts as well as weld up the flat subframe mounts for the rear.

I don't think there's really anything that can be done to increase stiffness, and you'll get a sense of that once you see an IRS subframe up close. For one, the tubes are massive in circumference, much more diameter than any roll cage tubes. And the swaybar mount area that connects the upper and lower part of the subframe is incredibly beefy. The thing is rock solid. I for one don't think there's any amount of power that can pretzel this, as surely it is not the weak link.

I wouldn't worry about squaring up the IRS subframe to the rest of the car. Like I said, when these things were made, it was by a billion dollar company (Ford) and I've gone through two of them - both have held alignments perfectly (with modern machines that use the laser reflectors). You should have no worries. Unless you are unfortunate and someone sells you one from a car that was hit in the back and they didn't disclose the damage, that is.

I'd worry more on making sure the front subframe of the car is squared up with the rear torque boxes, with plumb bobs as outlined by the Maximum Motorsports tutorial. Once your IRS subframe is installed and torqued down, all that's needed is just the 4-wheel alignment and presto.
 
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thegreatpumpkin

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Right, but I think you're missing my point. I'm considering installing this in a 1965 Galaxie with custom mounts and braces/crossmembers. It's not about squaring anything up, it's about installing the cradle at the same angle so that the suspension geometry is correct, and I have zero reference points for that. I would need something like the axis of rotation of LCAs versus the ground, or a difference in heights of the front pointing mounts versus the rears. If I had a (stock height and tire) 04 Cobra in the driveway I would put an angle finder on the cradle tube running front to rear from the front mounting point and see what the actual angle of the installed cradle is

**EDIT a better way to ask this is, is the pivot axis of the LCA (not the arm itself, the axis of movement) parallel to the ground or does it have an angle
 
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cobrajeff96

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You'd be better off sending emails to:

Kenny Brown
Full Tilt Boogie Racing
Maximum Motorsports
 

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I have been considering the The foam idea and it is interesting but I think silicon might have been better.
 

cobrajeff96

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Better yet elastomer (OEM bushing material). I searched and searched but nada.
 

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