Building a modular engine...

1996mustangGT · Dec 29, 2009

Ok. I've built a 289, a 302 and helped with a 351 cleaveland. Never done a modular before.
I'm dropping off the block for my 5.4 second week in january to be machined, and I'm having a serious moral delima on what to do.

I have spent so much on the rotating assembly and heads and such and I'm somewhat worried about putting it together. Im mechanically adept, I just am not 100% sure if I should tackle it or not.

Then not to mention the whole setting the cams thing :crybaby2: I have no idea where to start on that...so that will be a first.

Thoughts/Feelings?

No modular bashing. :thumbsup:

Shame302 · Dec 29, 2009

Then not to mention the whole setting the cams thing crybaby2 I have no idea where to start on that...so that will be a first.

Pretty good indication that you should have a reputable shop build it for you. This ain't a 5.0 and after spending X amount of dollars on it why risk making a mistake, that could be really easy to make and miss. It may take a little longer to save up and pay a shop but it beats regretting it.

silver 4.6 · Jan 5, 2010

100% agreed

Rice_slayer · Jan 5, 2010

Setting the cams is a MAJOR pita. I had to do it in school on a 32v continental engine, took a bit of time to get everything perfect.

1996mustangGT · Jan 5, 2010

Welp, IM building it. Oh well.

got5.0 · Jan 5, 2010

it seems like your not in a big rush, so why don't you do some homework and slowly work at it until its perfect... How is having a shop build an engine for you any fun? AND, how will you learn how to do another one if someone else is doing it?

1996mustangGT · Jan 5, 2010

Exactly. i am just going to take my time and do it myself

should be fun

Shame302 · Jan 5, 2010

Good luck with that. I really mean it. You can research the snot out of it, read books, watch videos but NOTHING can make up for experience.

If someone you know needs heart surgery. Is researching it, taking your time and what not a better option than having someone that's done a few of them?

By the time your done paying out for all the parts and little things you need, have the block checked and machined, the assembly balanced etc, you might as well have it assembled by someone familiar with it. At least then if something fails they are liable for it. After all that work and money and you decide to assemble it and something fails it's on you. Then again, you may get it just right and be problem free.

duff daddy · Jan 5, 2010

You can do what you want, I would get someone good to do the machine work. If your comfortable setting up the bottom end then do it. If not let the machine shop do it for you, (they will be familiar with the block and if there are any "hiccups" to be had they can just take care of it in house. degreing cams is complicated but if you want the most out of your set up, you will do it and get the benefits of a little extra time, and plus be happy its not 4v

)

Iron blocks are much more forgiving then and aluminum (wap/teksid or ford racing block) w/heat and expansion, so you have that on your side.

I think you should be alright, get some books, take your time and DONT RUSH!!!

Shame302 · Jan 6, 2010

but if you want the most out of your set up, you will do it and get the benefits of a little extra time, and be pouty its not 4v cheesy

I see you made an error duffy, but don't fret, I fixed it for you bud.

That being said, I wouldn't worry about degree-ing the cams as much as dealing with the tolerances and assembly techniques regarding the short block and heads. I'm not saying i wouldn't do it, but if you have doubts don't. I think it's a wiser decision to have someone with experience do it. If you think your going to be elbows deep in modular engines often then by all means, no time/place better than now with your own equipment.

1996mustangGT · Jan 6, 2010

meh i consider myself mechanically adept so im sure ill be ok. my uncles build SBF`s so i have a hookup for the block machining and all the tools needed to assemble.

Shame302 · Jan 6, 2010

Well, like i said. It's not a typical sbf. Treating it like one might invite trouble. Nobody is saying you can't do it. Tolerances are tighter, it's a bit more detail oriented and some of the tools are different. No biggie. Just make sure you know what your getting into and make sure your assembling in a super clean, dust free room, use all new hardware and don't skimp on torque sequence or increments and buy a quality TTY guage. Doc. your build well too.

duff daddy · Jan 6, 2010

strech gauges, dial indicators are all very important, also if your going aluminum and even iron, torque and reverse torque sequence are very very important

Jrgunn5150 · Jan 6, 2010

Personally, I find it quite easy. Do one thing at a time, don't worry about step 32 when you're on step 21 and it won't overwhelm you.

There's nothing mystical or magical about building a mod motor, it's just clearances and math... If you can pull and replace one, you can build one.

1996mustangGT · Jan 6, 2010

JR! Welcome back bro! Hope you've been well.

Yeah i'll take pic's along the way. Should be interesting!

Shame302 · Jan 6, 2010

There's nothing mystical or magical about building a mod motor

Nobody said there was. It's just much more detail oriented and less forgiving. After parts acquisition, machine shop costs etc. it's cheap ins. to have someone that's built a few hundred/thousand of them build yours, and build it right. Am i afraid to build one? No. But I'm not arrogant enough to think its not possible that i could make a mistake or miss something. I'll pay for a quality build, from a quality builder. Same goes for setting up rear diff gears. Can I, have i done it with success? Yes. Will I do it again, probably not. There is a multitude of things that i know i can do, and have the confidence to do, but it simply makes more sense to have someone else do it.

Jrgunn5150 · Jan 6, 2010

Don't get so sensitive bud, no one here is calling your manhood into question... :nono:

You are right, there are certainly benefits to paying a professional. There are also benefit's to doing it yourself....

However, the process is the same regardless of where the cams/cam is located. Building it on a stand...not that hard. Will you screw up? Probably... Live and learn, which is why I preach patience when doing any mods.

Shame302 · Jan 6, 2010

LOL, trust me, I'm not sensitive. I make it a point to not bring my "feelings" with me to work, or the web. The web is a nice place too share info as well as entertainment with the occasional sprinkle of a good mocking here and there. Bottom line is, i don't care what happens to anybody's engine or anything that "happens" online. I will however try to keep the moral compass in check. I would never tell a noob that building a modular engine by himself with no experience is a good idea regardless of how "easy" it may be. You can make mistakes degreeing cams, but it should be caught before its buttoned up. I'm focusing on the long block save for the degreeing of the cams. If the rotating assembly is fubared, it might, and probably won't be realized until its too late. On the other hand, one might get lucky and things could go along swimmingly. In the end, a mistake building an engine is almost always an expensive one.

I think flying RC helicopters is easy but I'd never hand the sticks over to someone that has read it all and watched some videos on how to fly regardless of how confident they are.

Jrgunn5150 · Jan 7, 2010

Shame302 said:
LOL, trust me, I'm not sensitive. I make it a point to not bring my "feelings" with me to work, or the web. The web is a nice place too share info as well as entertainment with the occasional sprinkle of a good mocking here and there. Bottom line is, i don't care what happens to anybody's engine or anything that "happens" online. I will however try to keep the moral compass in check. I would never tell a noob that building a modular engine by himself with no experience is a good idea regardless of how "easy" it may be. You can make mistakes degreeing cams, but it should be caught before its buttoned up. I'm focusing on the long block save for the degreeing of the cams. If the rotating assembly is fubared, it might, and probably won't be realized until its too late. On the other hand, one might get lucky and things could go along swimmingly. In the end, a mistake building an engine is almost always an expensive one.

I think flying RC helicopters is easy but I'd never hand the sticks over to someone that has read it all and watched some videos on how to fly regardless of how confident they are.

I don't disagree with you at al here, it's just at some point, you have to jump in the water so to speak...

I guess I'm saying, there's only one way to get experience, in the end. If you want it, you gotta take the plunge, otherwise, you'll be paying someone like me forever. I have no problem with that, lol, but I never discourage anyone from trying either.

Of course I always tell people if their SN is their only car, they need to buy a second car too. Don't eff up the DD lol.

Shame302 · Jan 7, 2010

I don't disagree with you at al here, it's just at some point, you have to jump in the water so to speak...

Sure, if you plan too be elbows deep in modulars for years to come. A well built engine should last many years. How many engines does the typical guy build? There is nothing wrong with learning, but when money is tight, and you don't plan on building an engine every other year than likely the wiser decision would be to have someone build it. Particularly so like you said, if its a DD. I would never, ever suggest someone significantly mod a DD. Also, most people don't list their DD in their sig. I know i wouldn't and never have.

When i read something like this

I have spent so much on the rotating assembly and heads and such and I'm somewhat worried about putting it together. Im mechanically adept, I just am not 100% sure if I should tackle it or not.

I see a hesitation do to it's complexity, inexperience and most of all the sign that the budget is tight, making it a money issue. Money being tight should never be the reason for building it on your own on a first build.