C Heads...

[MrE]

Newb question perhaps but, what is a C Head?
I get that it is a cylinder head but why is it better?
Can i use it on a Cobra?
What brand of PD blower kits would fit and might also have supporting products specific for a C-head swap?
Most importantly does it have another name or part number or something?
As you might imagine searching "C-Head" in Google comes with mixed results.


Thank you

 

[96blak54]

Ford classified the modular 4valved heads by using an alphabet letter to represent the style revision.

"A" being the first style never made it to production. This head was similar to "B" style, 2intake ports per cylinder. Both ports for "A" at entry were round, (i can not verify the port shape or total area) where as the "B" entry has a square and round port. The "B" head can be found on any 4v before 1998. Sticking with a Cobra variant is best cause the other version (known as Lincoln) did not have the performance upgrades untill mid97.

In 1999, the C head was introduced. This head has but only one port at entry per cylinder. This port then splits in two for the valves. 2 versions of common C heads are 4.6l and 5.4l. The 5.4l's intake port is larger. Their are more versions, but these are the most common.

To answer "what style is better"
The C head has more support. Neither style head is better than the other. Each carry a strong point as well its weakness, but the C head style gained alot more support. The absolute best 4v C head came along on the 03/04 cobra. This head carries the idea port shape for performance.

These heads bolt on to any 4.6l or 5.4l engine.

 

[MrE]

Ford classified the modular 4valved heads by using an alphabet letter to represent the style revision.

"A" being the first style never made it to production. This head was similar to "B" style, 2intake ports per cylinder. Both ports for "A" at entry were round, (i can not verify the port shape or total area) where as the "B" entry has a square and round port. The "B" head can be found on any 4v before 1998. Sticking with a Cobra variant is best cause the other version (known as Lincoln) did not have the performance upgrades untill mid97.

In 1999, the C head was introduced. This head has but only one port at entry per cylinder. This port then splits in two for the valves. 2 versions of common C heads are 4.6l and 5.4l. The 5.4l's intake port is larger. Their are more versions, but these are the most common.

To answer "what style is better"
The C head has more support. Neither style head is better than the other. Each carry a strong point as well its weakness, but the C head style gained alot more support. The absolute best 4v C head came along on the 03/04 cobra. This head carries the idea port shape for performance.

These heads bolt on to any 4.6l or 5.4l engine.

So i need to search for cylinder heads for 1999-2004 Mustang?
Can it be any mustang or is it Cobra only for C-heads?
If i have 99-04 heads on say a 98, i can use any supercharger from that year right?

My reasoning is that i don't like centri-sc. I prefer TVS but looking to be intercooled. This is a common issue from what ive seen. Im just trying to clear up some questions i havent found solid answers to.

 

[96blak54]

There really is no "B" head style roots s/c, so youre right about using "c" heads with the tvs. The heads will bolt on to any 4.6l block and the original exhaust manifolds will bolt up as well. Timing cover shouldnt be an issue, but their might be differences in some of the cover bolt diameters because the heads have revised tapped holes were the cover bolts to. Not a big deal, just look for it.

Any lincoln/mustang C head will work good with the tvs. The navigators ports are bigger and may pose problems with sealing up to the tvs port,...im not sure about this, just a thought. 03/04 cobra heads are butt rape expensive and for good reason, butt really any 4.6l C head will bolt up.

 

[MrE]

There really is no "B" head style roots s/c, so youre right about using "c" heads with the tvs. The heads will bolt on to any 4.6l block and the original exhaust manifolds will bolt up as well. Timing cover shouldnt be an issue, but their might be differences in some of the cover bolt diameters because the heads have revised tapped holes were the cover bolts to. Not a big deal, just look for it.

Any lincoln/mustang C head will work good with the tvs. The navigators ports are bigger and may pose problems with sealing up to the tvs port,...im not sure about this, just a thought. 03/04 cobra heads are butt rape expensive and for good reason, butt really any 4.6l C head will bolt up.

Sweet thank you for the info.

One last question (until the next one).
Are there any aftermarket heads that i could buy from say edlebrock or other known brand that will work with a TVS supercharger from an equally known brand.
The reason i ask is because seems id have to buy a used head from e-bay to do the head swap and they may not be in the best condition. Im brave enough to do the swap but not knowledgeable enough to know if a head is bad at purchase. Id rather just buy new part if i can.

 

[MrE]

actually i think this thread is answering a few questions for me

http://www.sn95forums.com/showthrea...d-You!-What-4v-Heads-and-When-Did-They-Happen

 

[96blak54]

You could go dig into salvage yards for a known "running" 99-2000 lincoln continental. They have C heads and usually pick up the whole car for cheap. "Running" heads are the best choice.

C heads were plagued with loose valve seats and incorrectly machined lifter bores causing valves to not completely shut. Hearing the heads running helps

 

[RedTwilight]

A few things to keep in mind.
If getting the TVS blower make sure you get one that will work on a '99,'01 Cobra or Mach 1.

If you get one that fits '03-'04 Cobras then you will need to source the front timing cover, pulley bridge, and all accessory relocation brackets and pulleys. Basically what will be involved in an "Eaton Swap".

Yes the early "C" tumble port heads are the cheapest. The absolute best "C" head would be the revised "DC" casting as found on the '05 Lincoln Aviators. They have the same design as the '03-'04 Cobra heads but with the 9 thread spark plug holes, revised cooling passages around the #7 and #8 cylinders, and revised valve guides.

Whichever head you get I would look into doing the "head cooling mod".

 

[MrE]

A few things to keep in mind.
If getting the TVS blower make sure you get one that will work on a '99,'01 Cobra or Mach 1.

If you get one that fits '03-'04 Cobras then you will need to source the front timing cover, pulley bridge, and all accessory relocation brackets and pulleys. Basically what will be involved in an "Eaton Swap".

Yes the early "C" tumble port heads are the cheapest. The absolute best "C" head would be the revised "DC" casting as found on the '05 Lincoln Aviators. They have the same design as the '03-'04 Cobra heads but with the 9 thread spark plug holes, revised cooling passages around the #7 and #8 cylinders, and revised valve guides.

Whichever head you get I would look into doing the "head cooling mod".

If i go with 05 Aviator heads im basically doing the eaton swap anyway right? How much fabrication goes into the Aviator swap?

If i get a heads from a Town Car or Aviator how can i be sure any TVS blower i get will fit properly?
Seems easier to use mustang heads unless im wrong here.

 

[96blak54]

Forget about the town car, they have 2v heads. Any 4v modular head will work. Its the port shape that offers potential.

 

[RedTwilight]

If i go with 05 Aviator heads im basically doing the eaton swap anyway right? How much fabrication goes into the Aviator swap?

If i get a heads from a Town Car or Aviator how can i be sure any TVS blower i get will fit properly?
Seems easier to use mustang heads unless im wrong here.

The "Eaton Swap involves more than just the heads.
Basically you can use any of the "C" heads for an Eaton Swap. '99,'01,'03-'04 Cobra, Lincoln heads, they all will work.
I was just letting you know to make sure you get the correct supercharger for the application.

The '03-'04 Cobras (and the Eaton Swap stuff) use a different front engine accessory drive system than the others would. So you would have to find all purchase all the different parts to make an 03-04 Cobra compatible blower work on the engine. There is more involved in this setup than just heads and a supercharger. The use of these supercharger require locating the front timing cover, pulley bridge, accessory drive pieces and brackets, intercooler pump and tank, 03-04 specific supercharger, throttle / cruise cables, etc.

The other way is to find a supercharger that will be applicable for a '99, '01 Cobra or a Mach 1. The only intercooled positive displacement superchargers to fit these that I'm aware of is Kenne Bell. I haven't seen a Whipple, TVS, or other P D blower for those. This would retain the front belt and accessory drive system for the non factory supercharged 4V engines.


What do you currently have? 96-98 Cobra?

 

[MrE]

The "Eaton Swap involves more than just the heads.
Basically you can use any of the "C" heads for an Eaton Swap. '99,'01,'03-'04 Cobra, Lincoln heads, they all will work.
I was just letting you know to make sure you get the correct supercharger for the application.

The '03-'04 Cobras (and the Eaton Swap stuff) use a different front engine accessory drive system than the others would. So you would have to find all purchase all the different parts to make an 03-04 Cobra compatible blower work on the engine. There is more involved in this setup than just heads and a supercharger. The use of these supercharger require locating the front timing cover, pulley bridge, accessory drive pieces and brackets, intercooler pump and tank, 03-04 specific supercharger, throttle / cruise cables, etc.

The other way is to find a supercharger that will be applicable for a '99, '01 Cobra or a Mach 1. The only intercooled positive displacement superchargers to fit these that I'm aware of is Kenne Bell. I haven't seen a Whipple, TVS, or other P D blower for those. This would retain the front belt and accessory drive system for the non factory supercharged 4V engines.

What do you currently have? 96-98 Cobra?

Great info thank you.
Just to clarify i can get any C head that will match with a supercharger from that year. Do i need a lower intake or does the KB supercharger take care of that?

I dont have a cobra yet. I feel like a fraud asking all these questions. lol. Essentially i'm making a build sheet for a future purchase. Im selling two cars (350z roadster being sold today, and a Volvo S60) picking up a Prius soon. Then switching jobs. After that im going to grab a 96-98 Cobra Vert. I use to own a 95, now im coming back for more.

I was a mechanic in the Navy so im not too afraid to do the work. However seeing as that was 10 years ago and i dont have a very good tool kit im looking to make this as brain-dead simple as i can.

I can get a KB for the stock 96-98 SVT as you know but spending 4k or so for not much gain is frustrating and i dont want to use a procharger or vortech.
So im trying to work out the simplest head swap. Im not stuck on huge power numbers i just want a good value for money and intercooled so i can run more than 5lbs of boost. If i can just pick up some heads, get them cleaned up and bolted on then slap a blower on and go, that would make me very happy.

Thing is the Heads are somewhat easy to find. In varying degrees of quality and price yes, but everytime i search, i find one. Its just a matter of which one to use. The TVS style superchargers are not as easy for some reason. Seems they didnt get popular until the 03-04 cobra which lands me in Eaton Swap land right? A Land i think i want to avoid do to sourcing parts and fabrication.

 

[RedTwilight]

See my answers in RED. Also if anyone see's I'm wrong on any info feel free to set me straight. Let's help MrE out as much as we can.

Great info thank you.
Just to clarify i can get any C head that will match with a supercharger from that year. Do i need a lower intake or does the KB supercharger take care of that?

Any 4V "C" head will work with any supercharger designed for '99 & '01 Cobras, Mach 1's, '03-'04 Cobras, and 4 valve Lincolns. A lot of the Terminator guys use the '99, '01 or Mach 1 intakes when switching to turbos or centrifugal superchargers.
The main difference is in the snout of the supercharger and the belt drive system.

I dont have a cobra yet. I feel like a fraud asking all these questions. lol. Essentially i'm making a build sheet for a future purchase. Im selling two cars (350z roadster being sold today, and a Volvo S60) picking up a Prius soon. Then switching jobs. After that im going to grab a 96-98 Cobra Vert. I use to own a 95, now im coming back for more.

Great! Welcome back! Can't wait to see what you get!
From what your wanting to do I would recommend trying to find a '98. They have a returnless style fuel system similar to the '99 and '01 Cobras. OR skip the hassle all together and go straight for the jugular with a Termy!

I was a mechanic in the Navy so im not too afraid to do the work. However seeing as that was 10 years ago and i dont have a very good tool kit im looking to make this as brain-dead simple as i can.

I can get a KB for the stock 96-98 SVT as you know but spending 4k or so for not much gain is frustrating and i dont want to use a procharger or vortech.
So im trying to work out the simplest head swap. Im not stuck on huge power numbers i just want a good value for money and intercooled so i can run more than 5lbs of boost. If i can just pick up some heads, get them cleaned up and bolted on then slap a blower on and go, that would make me very happy.

Yeah having no intercooler is what lead me to research and collecting parts for a Eaton style swap. I really want to go with a polished Kenne Bell 2.8 or Whipple 2.9.

No matter how you go, it isn't ever going to be as simple as one first thinks. As mentioned above if you choose to go with a '98 then you might be able to use the fuel rails and connections from the '99 & '01 Cobras. That would help keep some of the fabrication down.
But you can pretty much be assured that there will be some things that need adapting. Depending on the lower intake for the blower, you may have grind down the knock sensor bosses in the valley. Also you WILL need a tune. Things like the knock sensors and IMRC controls will have to be deleted as well as the normal tuning stuff. And don't forget about upgrades to the fuel system. And with a PD blower (even intercooled) will come increased intake air temperatures and therefore higher engine temps. So an upgrade to the cooling system should be a consideration.



Thing is the Heads are somewhat easy to find. In varying degrees of quality and price yes, but everytime i search, i find one. Its just a matter of which one to use. The TVS style superchargers are not as easy for some reason. Seems they didnt get popular until the 03-04 cobra which lands me in Eaton Swap land right? A Land i think i want to avoid do to sourcing parts and fabrication.

I can't in full faith say that going with a Kenne Bell (or other blower) for a '99 Cobra, '01 Cobra or Mach 1 will be the easiest / cheapest or least headache inducing route. I didn't do a lot of research on this method before deciding to go the Terminator style swap.

Yeah PD superchargers really got a "boost" in popularity when the Terminators came out. So there are a lot of options for the '03-'04 Cobras for a PD supercharger that aren't available for the other 4V cars.

There are a lot of info on both directions. Do your homework now and plan things out so you can get a sense of what is involved. The Mach 1 forums as well as several other should have lots of info that will help.

 

[96blak54]

How much power is needed to satisfy your self

 

[RedTwilight]

How much power is needed to satisfy your self

According to his other thread around 400 - 450 at the wheels. Also he's against a centrifugal style supercharger. But we all know that we can never get enough power! LOL

A correctly sized turbo would probably be perfect for his goals! And he wouldn't have to worry about swapping heads.

 

[96blak54]

400-450 is easily achieved 2v...why not 2v? 4v or 2v he will have to rebuild the bottom end stronger.

Come on OP. Its PD torque youre wanting,...just build a 2v. Youll be glad you did. 32valves become a headache

 

[RedTwilight]

Even if he did go 2 valve, he would still need to upgrade to the PI heads at least since he want the 94-98 body style. Even then it's still going to be a little more than just slapping on a set of heads. It's possible that if he went the 2V he could do the Torque Tech M112 setup.

But personally from reading his other thread and what he is wanting to achieve I think his best way to go would be a '96-'98 4V Cobra and add a correctly sized turbo. Then the rest of his money can go towards the suspension on his choice. That would probably be the easiest / cheapest way in the long run to achieve his modest goals.

Of course I'd also consider replacing the rods and pistons to better pieces if he plans to use a power adder of any form.

 

[MrE]

400-450 is easily achieved 2v...why not 2v? 4v or 2v he will have to rebuild the bottom end stronger.

Come on OP. Its PD torque youre wanting,...just build a 2v. Youll be glad you did. 32valves become a headache

You are so, so, right. Low end torque is really what im after. Thank you for saying what i was having trouble finding the words for.

Other than relatively quiet (centris whistle at idle like a scraping chalk board), low end torque is topping my list of wants. I wanna laugh my ass off from stop light to stop light.
Does me no good to have all the power up top. I live in LA, we invented the traffic jam.

 

[MrE]

Even if he did go 2 valve, he would still need to upgrade to the PI heads at least since he want the 94-98 body style. Even then it's still going to be a little more than just slapping on a set of heads. It's possible that if he went the 2V he could do the Torque Tech M112 setup.

But personally from reading his other thread and what he is wanting to achieve I think his best way to go would be a '96-'98 4V Cobra and add a correctly sized turbo. Then the rest of his money can go towards the suspension on his choice. That would probably be the easiest / cheapest way in the long run to achieve his modest goals.

Of course I'd also consider replacing the rods and pistons to better pieces if he plans to use a power adder of any form.

Torque Tech M112 looks interesting, Just ive always wanted a Cobra sooooo.

 

[96blak54]

5.4l 2v has 300lbft torque off idle and climbs from there. Throw a supercharger or turbo in the mix, traction becomes a problem...with any gear.