Does anyone else have this issue with timing?

[Terrorist 5.0]

If you have the stock balancer it could’ve slipped showing the wrong timing. It’s been known to happen.

Also every 302 is different. A bunch of foxbody guys run 10-14* no problem. The 302 in my 90 Grand Marquis will ping with anything over 8*. And it has lower compression.

My balancer is a relatively new Ford replacement, and can confirm that isn’t it, as I had the same issue right after I put it on. My timing pointer seems straight, the only thing I can think of (and this is only a thought, I haven’t confirmed anything yet) is that the chain stretched enough to affect cam timing, possibly causing pinging.

 

[95opal]

Hi everyone, was watching some YouTube videos of Foxes and SN95s accelerating, and got to thinking how I can make mine a little faster by solving the one problem this car has given me the whole time I’ve owned it.

My car is running pretty fantastic as it is, but I have a weird issue with timing. When I went to do a cap and rotor for the first time, my smart ass knew the firing order already and yanked the wires off the cap without looking. When I went to put the new ones on in the correct order and start the car, it would barely run. I had the order right, but turns out the car itself was messed up.

1 is where 6 should be on the cap. It is backwards. The order is effectively 65481372. This must mean something mechanically is in backwards. I believe the distributor is 180 out and the previous owner just decided to put the wires backwards to fix it instead of repositioning the distributor properly.

Regardless, I can still adjust ignition timing. My issue is that even though I am running the highest octane I can get, my car will start to ping at anything over 9 degrees BTDC. The car has no vacuum leaks, this has been confirmed multiple times, the IAT and MAF are both clean and clocked properly, and seem to be within range when checked with a multimeter (IAT), the TPS works fine (checked with a multimeter), the car is not running hot or warm, I SeaFoamed it (which barely helped in all honesty), I gapped the plugs right, I just can’t seem to figure it out. I’ve left it as is, but as I am sitting here with nothing to do, I have to ask. Has anyone else had this problem?

I know SN95 5.0L GT’s have a pinging problem that has been well documented, but I feel this isn’t normal. I also understand that the SN95 5.0L computer differs from the Foxbody computer in that it doesn’t use a set table for WOT. It doesn’t go open loop. It still reads O2 sensors. I plan on cleaning them to see if any improvement will show, but does anyone have any idea on any steps I should take? Thanks everyone.

You can't just run the wrong firing order it doesn't work like that. All your problems stem from that. Your injectors are controlled by the PCM. If you have cylinder 6 as #1 you more than likely aren't getting the correct fuel when #6 is firing. That goes for every cylinder. Your ping problem in a nut shell.
Start fresh bring the #1 up to tdc stab the dizzy so the rotor points to #1 drop your plug wires on 13726548. Then pull the spout and hit it with the timing light.
Or do it old school leave the dizzy bolt slightly loose take it for a sling and advance till it pings. Jump out and back it down a tad.
Did it like that for years. If your ears are good the light is useless. Lol

 

[94IndyPace]

Agree with opal. It can be 180 out and still run but not right. Pull your #1 and get it at TDC on the compression stoke and stab it in. When I bought my cobra I drove it home running like dog turds. Went to do a tune up and it was 12345678 on the cap. Dk how it even ran or drove.

 

[ttocs]

x3

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

Agree with opal. It can be 180 out and still run but not right. Pull your #1 and get it at TDC on the compression stoke and stab it in. When I bought my cobra I drove it home running like dog turds. Went to do a tune up and it was 12345678 on the cap. Dk how it even ran or drove.

Lmao with that order I’m surprised it drove too, that settles it then, I am going to set it up properly when I return. However, the car runs flawlessly as it is just for the record.

 

[Rod]

First, did it run perfectly before you changed out parts? Check TDC by running a rod into the spark plug hole, when the piston is at TDC check the harmonic balancer for TDC. The elastomer ring goes bad and the rings slip. If that show good double check the cap to make sure it's seated corrrectly, not all caps are created equal. I hate the two piece design shit. Also which plug wire are you connecting to to check timing? You should be on number 1, but not everyone realizes number 1 on a 5.0 Windsor is the front passenger side plug and will use the driver side. For reference I have a 95 and I run 14° advance on mine year round, and in the summer I run 92oct to keep it from pinging. You could also have shit fuel, that will lead to pinging, or you could have carbon build up, that will definitely cause pinging. You can bore scope to check for that.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

First, did it run perfectly before you changed out parts? Check TDC by running a rod into the spark plug hole, when the piston is at TDC check the harmonic balancer for TDC. The elastomer ring goes bad and the rings slip. If that show good double check the cap to make sure it's seated corrrectly, not all caps are created equal. I hate the two piece design shit. Also which plug wire are you connecting to to check timing? You should be on number 1, but not everyone realizes number 1 on a 5.0 Windsor is the front passenger side plug and will use the driver side. For reference I have a 95 and I run 14° advance on mine year round, and in the summer I run 92oct to keep it from pinging. You could also have shit fuel, that will lead to pinging, or you could have carbon build up, that will definitely cause pinging. You can bore scope to check for that.

Thank you for the detailed reply, before I changed out any parts (the first time I did a tune up on the car) the previous owner had the timing up way too high. The marble in a can sound was very noticeable. The engine also had a little vibration (although I attribute this to being the first time I own a car with an engine design this old), so I replaced the harmonic balancer with a Ford unit.

I put in 8 new MotorCraft copper plugs, gapped to 54 thousandths IIRC, and set timing at 10 BTDC. New cap, rotor and wires as well. The timing pointer seems straight, and I connected the timing light to the wire coming from the front most passenger side cylinder (number 1 according to Ford’s special numbering). On regular, the car still pinged, but not as bad as before.

I lowered the timing to 6 BTDC, and it still pinged a little. I cleaned my MAF and IAT, which helped a little, but ultimately, I have to run 9 BTDC, on premium, to avoid any pinging under any conditions. I tried SeaFoam, which barely helped. I have yet to put a camera in the cylinder.

I have decided, since the car runs flawlessly as is right now, I will not touch it. I will re-stab the distributor correctly when I do my next tuneup. I will also check for timing chain slop while I am there.

I am 100 percent confident this issue is fixable, I would rather just fix it at my convenience. Believe me though, I don’t forget what I post on the forums, and I will 100% be back when I do try to fix this, and will post back with results.

 

[ttocs]

I am confused how we are on a topic about timing where you are complaining about pinging at low timing and then saying it is running perfectly... These two do not compute.

Did you ever fix the dist?

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

I am confused how we are on a topic about timing where you are complaining about pinging at low timing and then saying it is running perfectly... These two do not compute.

Did you ever fix the dist?

Sorry for the confusion, I get pinging even on really low timing (6 BTDC) on regular. If I fill up premium, I can do up to 9 BTDC with no pinging at all. I have not yet fixed the distributor as I am on vacation and the car is sitting at home.

 

[ttocs]

if 9 is the highest you can put it with premium then it is not running perfectly. It should run fine on stock gas at 9-10 IIRC.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

if 9 is the highest you can put it with premium then it is not running perfectly. It should run fine on stock gas at 9-10 IIRC.

I agree that something is wrong, I just haven’t figured it out yet, and I am going to place the distributor properly during the next tuneup.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

Hi everyone, just came back to say that after I rebuilt my distributor due to a problem (cutting out at 5K), and putting it back in its proper position (cylinder 1 TDC when stabbing), the car now uses the normal firing order, runs a little smoother, and I have my timing up to 13 or 14 degrees now. No hint of pinging. I am running the best fuel I can get currently so next fill up I will bump the octane down a little and see what happens. Thanks everyone.