Final Thought

[94'BooSTED-GTtoo]

heres what i came up with,

1.wg not working - hooked to a vac source instead of a pressure source... wheres best to tap into? i dont have a source on my turbo, and dont really want to drill and tap it....tap into the intake pipe?

2.nasty exhaust leak- wg not letting off pressure and turbo is working at 100%, building up too much pressure, and mufflers can't keep it

3.not building boost- bov spring is not firm enough, nd also not adjustable....but new one is!!!!

4-restrictive mufflers- they might not be, as i mentioned, i think the turbo is at 100%, throwing exhaust they cant move out fast enough, but maybe is the turbo is ran at 30% they will flow?

5-blow though exhaust on turbo - return line wasn't positioned to flow nicely...... fixed now though, and doesn't seem to be blowing oil anymore

:slowclap:

 

[Lanter]

heres what i came up with,

1.wg not working - hooked to a vac source instead of a pressure source... wheres best to tap into? i dont have a source on my turbo, and dont really want to drill and tap it....tap into the intake pipe?

2.nasty exhaust leak- wg not letting off pressure and turbo is working at 100%, building up too much pressure, and mufflers can't keep it

3.not building boost- bov spring is not firm enough, nd also not adjustable....but new one is!!!!

4-restrictive mufflers- they might not be, as i mentioned, i think the turbo is at 100%, throwing exhaust they cant move out fast enough, but maybe is the turbo is ran at 30% they will flow?

5-blow though exhaust on turbo - return line wasn't positioned to flow nicely...... fixed now though, and doesn't seem to be blowing oil anymore

:slowclap:

How do you know the WG isn't working, if you haven't made boost pressures over the spring pressure is will stay closed. Or is it opening prematurely? Some guys run it to the intake, not ideal but it will work. You really should tap into the compressor cover or close to it. There is also a company that makes boost reference source fittings that go into the silicone boot.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-010&Category_Code=BCS

2. If the wg wasn't letting off pressure you'd see boost pressures up above 20psi is my guess, unless you have a massive boost leak from a charge pipe not being connected or something similar. If the wastegate doesn't open that means all the exhaust gases are forced to go through the turbine side of the turbo. If this is the case the gases spin the turbine wheel which is connected to the compressor wheel so that also spins up to greater and greater speeds. When that happens the compressor wheel sucks in more outside air and compresses it which then is forced into the engine, assuming all the piping is connected from the compressor outlet to the throttle body and no big boost leaks are present.

3. You're saying the bov spring is to weak but have you tested it. Actually have you done any suggested diagnostic tests. I.E. compression test, boost leak test, vacuum test on BOV, pressure test on WG?? You got to diagnose stuff before throwing parts at it.

4. restrictive mufflers can cause issues but not enough to explain no boost being generated by the turbo.

 

[94'BooSTED-GTtoo]

the wg is staying closed, ive only been reving it in my garage and it isnt opening, it should still be opening shouldn't it, its staying sucked shut because they have a vac line routed to it.... so it cant open..... with spring pressure and vac suction.... ? i will be tapping a better source this weekend or i will be buying that adapter you recommended

bov, haven't tested it , but i hear it, deff can hear it leaking at idle,or soft rev and when it lets off when the car is revved it only makes a light sound, not like a pressurized "normal" bov sound


i know im making boost for sure on the hot side, it blew my exhaust out or the tube sleeve,

 

[Thomas_W]

the wg is staying closed, ive only been reving it in my garage and it isnt opening, it should still be opening shouldn't it, its staying sucked shut because they have a vac line routed to it.... so it cant open..... with spring pressure and vac suction.... ? i will be tapping a better source this weekend or i will be buying that adapter you recommended

bov, haven't tested it , but i hear it, deff can hear it leaking at idle,or soft rev and when it lets off when the car is revved it only makes a light sound, not like a pressurized "normal" bov sound


i know im making boost for sure on the hot side, it blew my exhaust out or the tube sleeve,

wastegates Always stay closed until the turbo is producing boost. Once the boost pressure meets/exceeds the predetermined psi by the wastegate spring, the wastegate will open allow exhaust to bypass the turbo allowing the turbo to slow down.

You'll never see a wastegate move just from sitting in the driveway revving the motor. You will also never see more than 1-2 psi of boost by revving he motor, it has to be put under a load for boost to be made (ie drive rhe car).

when you say "making boost on the hot side"... WTH? Boost isnt made on the hotside, only the cold side. Which hot side piping is coming loose? The piping from the heads to the turbo, or the downpipe aft to the mufflers/exhaust.

If your blowing the hotside piping apart pre the turbo, you either have a really poorly assembled hotside or a seriously undersized turbo causing excessive back pressure.

If its the piping after the turbo (downpipe, etc) then you need to find and eliminate the restriction(s) causing the problem.

 

[Defiant]

Wastegates need to be hooked up into a positive pressure source. So either the compressor housing on your turbocharger or the nearest charge pipe. The shorter your source line is the less chance of getting a boost spike. Always tap your threads with NPT threads and use barb fittings. If the metal is too thin then you must have a bung welded in place.

 

[94'BooSTED-GTtoo]

wastegates Always stay closed until the turbo is producing boost. Once the boost pressure meets/exceeds the predetermined psi by the wastegate spring, the wastegate will open allow exhaust to bypass the turbo allowing the turbo to slow down.

You'll never see a wastegate move just from sitting in the driveway revving the motor. You will also never see more than 1-2 psi of boost by revving he motor, it has to be put under a load for boost to be made (ie drive rhe car).

when you say "making boost on the hot side"... WTH? Boost isnt made on the hotside, only the cold side. Which hot side piping is coming loose? The piping from the heads to the turbo, or the downpipe aft to the mufflers/exhaust.

If your blowing the hotside piping apart pre the turbo, you either have a really poorly assembled hotside or a seriously undersized turbo causing excessive back pressure.

If its the piping after the turbo (downpipe, etc) then you need to find and eliminate the restriction(s) causing the problem.

-----> a turbo "makes" boost, which it does from the exhaust spinning the turbine on the hot side correct? which in turns spins the turbine on the cold side the other way to suck in air and shoot it through the pipe at a speed the exhaust is already "making" the turbine wheel spin, a turbo will only spin as fast as the exhaust getting to it right?so yea i believe the hot side makes the boost.... what i mean by my comment was, my turbo is working on the hot side....100% , wg isnt moving at all, the spring in the non adjustable bov is soft, and its not holding the boost the hot side of the turbo is producing , not arguring so dont take it that way , its kind of a statement/question, that's the way i see a turbo work

---> the pipe coming off the turbo to my exhaust, is split in two before the firewall to get it to fit, it has a hose clamp on it and that blew off because my turbo is 'making" too much boost,and my chambered mufflers couldnt keep up with all the exhaust the turbo was throwing at it, it wasnt regulated on the hot side at all , due to the wg not opening at all, and my mbc not hooked up right.... now the cans are off, the mbc is hooked up right, which i can control my wg opening at idle and revving..... i know it shouldnt, but i can and did do it to make sure it was finally hooked up right

---> cans went bye bye!!!!


and new bov is here and will be put on in the morn, should i start with it firm or loose? how do you adjust them? is it to about your wg lbs?

 

[Thomas_W]

-----> a turbo "makes" boost, which it does from the exhaust spinning the turbine on the hot side correct? which in turns spins the turbine on the cold side the other way to suck in air and shoot it through the pipe at a speed the exhaust is already "making" the turbine wheel spin, a turbo will only spin as fast as the exhaust getting to it right?so yea i believe the hot side makes the boost.... what i mean by my comment was, my turbo is working on the hot side....100% , wg isnt moving at all, the spring in the non adjustable bov is soft, and its not holding the boost the hot side of the turbo is producing , not arguring so dont take it that way , its kind of a statement/question, that's the way i see a turbo work

---> the pipe coming off the turbo to my exhaust, is split in two before the firewall to get it to fit, it has a hose clamp on it and that blew off because my turbo is 'making" too much boost,and my chambered mufflers couldnt keep up with all the exhaust the turbo was throwing at it, it wasnt regulated on the hot side at all , due to the wg not opening at all, and my mbc not hooked up right.... now the cans are off, the mbc is hooked up right, which i can control my wg opening at idle and revving..... i know it shouldnt, but i can and did do it to make sure it was finally hooked up right

---> cans went bye bye!!!!


and new bov is here and will be put on in the morn, should i start with it firm or loose? how do you adjust them? is it to about your wg lbs?

The hotside causes the turbo to spin, but the hotside doesnt produce boost. The compressor on the cold side produces boost by compressing the air going through it, not by speeding it up. If it just sped the air up, it would create lower pressure. This is why the wastegate has to be sourced from preferably the compressor housing or alternatively a vacuum lone source off the intake manifold.

the wastegate shouldnt modulate just by revving the car. It will stay closed until the cold side produces the proper amount of boost to overcome the wastegate spring pressure and open the wastegate, if it does, then something is amis bc boost isnt created until the vehicle is under some kind of load and free reving the vehicle isnt going to create any.

Most BOV's arent adjustable except for spring replacement or spring trimming. The only way to do this properly is to measure the vacuum your engine produces at idle and then install the spring that matches that vacuum. This ensures the BOV opens and closes properly.

 

[Lanter]

-----> a turbo "makes" boost, which it does from the exhaust spinning the turbine on the hot side correct? which in turns spins the turbine on the cold side the other way to suck in air and shoot it through the pipe at a speed the exhaust is already "making" the turbine wheel spin, a turbo will only spin as fast as the exhaust getting to it right?so yea i believe the hot side makes the boost.... what i mean by my comment was, my turbo is working on the hot side....100% , wg isnt moving at all, the spring in the non adjustable bov is soft, and its not holding the boost the hot side of the turbo is producing , not arguring so dont take it that way , its kind of a statement/question, that's the way i see a turbo work

---> the pipe coming off the turbo to my exhaust, is split in two before the firewall to get it to fit, it has a hose clamp on it and that blew off because my turbo is 'making" too much boost,and my chambered mufflers couldnt keep up with all the exhaust the turbo was throwing at it, it wasnt regulated on the hot side at all , due to the wg not opening at all, and my mbc not hooked up right.... now the cans are off, the mbc is hooked up right, which i can control my wg opening at idle and revving..... i know it shouldnt, but i can and did do it to make sure it was finally hooked up right

---> cans went bye bye!!!!


and new bov is here and will be put on in the morn, should i start with it firm or loose? how do you adjust them? is it to about your wg lbs?

The turbine (hot side) doesn't make boost, quite the opposite as it takes exhaust gas as a certain temperature and speed and decelerates it. The mechanism for decelerating this flow (exhaust gases) removed energy from the exhaust gases in the form of heat release and work. This work is the rotational energy that goes into the shaft that connects the turbine side to the compressor side. This rotational work is what drives the compressor and makes boost.

There is no turbine on the cold side, it is a compressor wheel. Think of it as a turbine takes gases and decelerates or expands them, releasing heat and energy. This energy goes to the compressor which takes air and compresses it adding density and heat while doing so. This increase in density is where the power increase is as more air equals needing more fuel which equals more power.

It's impossible, unless the compressor wheel or turbine wheel is slipping on the shaft so that some of the work is lost, for the turbine to do work yet the compressor fail to make boost. So my gut says you have a massive boost leak somewhere, you really need to do a boost leak test to eliminate any possible leaks.


As for BOV setting, you'll want to choose the spring that roughly equals the engine vacuum your car produces at idle. This is just an example but since engine vacuum at idle is typically measured in inches of mercury I'll use it. So if your car make 19 inHG vacuum, or -19 inHg of pressure you can convert that to psi (unit of spring pressure for most BOVs) by roughly cutting it in half or multiplying by 0.491154. So if we take the 19 inHG you'll want to use a roughly 10 psi spring, BOV springs are color coded and for TIAL the 10psi spring is unpainted or natural bare metal in color. If by adjustable you mean your BOV uses some sort of bolt to raise and lower spring pressure, similar to a fuel pressure regulator you'll want to apply 19 inHg vacuum to the BOV and adjust the stiffness until the valve is closed, but just closed.

 

[94'BooSTED-GT]

thanks for clearing it up.... i got it now!!!

but a big update...... its making, holding and loving boost, got out of work this evening after thinking about it all day, and flew how , opened the gargage and took her around the block.... i hit 6lbs very easy, let off after that , didnt want to push my luck, but im on the right track guys!!! thanks to everyone who chimed in :notworthy:, big big help.... i will sleep good tonight!:thumbsup:

 

[94'BooSTED-GTtoo]

thanks for clearing it up.... i got it now!!!

but a big update...... its making, holding and loving boost, got out of work this evening after thinking about it all day, and flew how , opened the gargage and took her around the block.... i hit 6lbs very easy, let off after that , didnt want to push my luck, but im on the right track guys!!! thanks to everyone who chimed in :notworthy:, big big help.... i will sleep good tonight!:thumbsup:

 

[lwarrior1016]

Glad you got it worked out.




This forum doesnt suck balls as much as you thought, huh?

 

[ttocs]

yea this has run well over both sides of the good/bad line huh?

 

[Lanter]

thanks for clearing it up.... i got it now!!!

but a big update...... its making, holding and loving boost, got out of work this evening after thinking about it all day, and flew how , opened the gargage and took her around the block.... i hit 6lbs very easy, let off after that , didnt want to push my luck, but im on the right track guys!!! thanks to everyone who chimed in :notworthy:, big big help.... i will sleep good tonight!:thumbsup:

So what was the problem???? What did you fix to get it to build boost

 

[94'BooSTED-GTtoo]

honestly....me, lol.... i was trying to get too complex when i just needed it simple, the wastegate was the problem to begin with,it was stuck open,not building boost, old one just need some wd-40, but i installed a new one, had to hook up a mbc and did that totally wrong, i have a adjustment screw on my wg ,so no need for it, turned it half way out, took the mbc out , and hooked up the wg right to the port i made in my intake before the tb, only problem now i think is my spring in my bov is too firm, can i lighten it up with a mbc like you do a wg? on the description for it it says "will hold up to 35psi" but theres no adjustment on it.... i dont think

 

[98snakehorse]

Glad your making some boost now.

 

[94'BooSTED-GT]

now i have two ports on my new wastegate one on the side and one on the top, i have seen a boost controller hooked up with just the bottom port hooked up through the mbc and also both port hooked up one line to the bottom then one through the mbc to the top port, how should i be hooking this up? and also im blowing alot of oil..... turbos junk? or maybe someone put 5w30 in it ? i have about 3/4 on the stock oil pressure gauge, too high?

 

[94'BooSTED-GTtoo]

now i have two ports on my new wastegate one on the side and one on the top, i have seen a boost controller hooked up with just the bottom port hooked up through the mbc and also both port hooked up one line to the bottom then one through the mbc to the top port, how should i be hooking this up? and also im blowing alot of oil..... turbos junk? or maybe someone put 5w30 in it ? i have about 3/4 on the stock oil pressure gauge, too high? im blowing oil like crazy, i do have a new turbo on the way, just a the same as whats on it no, then saving up for a nice one....

 

[ttocs]

a catch can would probably help

 

[98snakehorse]

You will for sure want a catch can with the turbo setup. I dont remember if you mentioned the condition of your motor but if its used with higher miles your rings are probably letting quite a bit of crank case pressure by. Also you might want to check the filter on your pcv valve that it isnt clogged because that is probably your only source of evacuation at this point.

 

[Lanter]

now i have two ports on my new wastegate one on the side and one on the top, i have seen a boost controller hooked up with just the bottom port hooked up through the mbc and also both port hooked up one line to the bottom then one through the mbc to the top port, how should i be hooking this up? and also im blowing alot of oil..... turbos junk? or maybe someone put 5w30 in it ? i have about 3/4 on the stock oil pressure gauge, too high? im blowing oil like crazy, i do have a new turbo on the way, just a the same as whats on it no, then saving up for a nice one....

The factory oil pressure gauge doesn't tell you much other than your pressure is greater than like 5 psi. It's just a switch either off or reading nothing when pressure is lower than 5 psi or reading something in between the high and low marks when you have greater than 5psi of pressure. You'll have to put an aftermarket gauge in to really know what oil pressure is doing