Hypereutectic vs. forged pistons

sixstanger00

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Hey guys,

I'm on the eve of starting my 4.3 stroker build.

I've been in contact with SSM and they've got a forged piston & rod kit for $1450.

Does anyone know how durable these hypereutectic pistons are?

I've seen one 6'er use them in his 4.3 build, but I don't know how far towards the performance end of the spectrum he was going to use it for. He did a full build, forged rods, overbore, SSM cam, rebuilt valvetrain, ported heads/intake etc.

I'll be doing the same, but if I can save a few $$$ on hypereutectic, I'll go that route.

My SN95 won't be a beauty queen though; she'll be seeing an autocross atleast one a month, as well as some track time (both drag & road course) in the future.

With that said, do you guys think hypereutectic would hold up under these conditions? No forced induction on it, btw.
 

g36 monkey

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Without forced induction you ought to be fine. I only have those in my car, and I beat the holy snot out of it every day, and she keeps coming back for more.
 

Orange 94

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How much power are you looking to make? Without forced induction, anything forged would be lots. no?

Monkey will likely be more helpful because he did the 4.3.

Mines just the 4.2 with the blower, wish i could have put forged internals while building it.


Edit: Monkey beat me to it :p
 
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sixstanger00

sixstanger00

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Without forced induction you ought to be fine. I only have those in my car, and I beat the holy snot out of it every day, and she keeps coming back for more.

LOL I was hoping to hear from you, monkey. Saw your vid on YT a few days ago!

Ok, I might go that route then. REALLY eager to move forward with this build, since

a) I pull into my drive everyday after work and my SN95 stares back at me from the garage.

b) Everybody and their mama is out and about in their SN95s...:p
 

g36 monkey

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The main benefit you would be getting is I think the rods and pistons tom sells are more lightweight than regular hyper stuff. So a little lighter rotating assembly would mean faster revs, etc.

Those pistons can handle around 400 horse. You likely won't come close to 3 without some sort of boost. I think I'm right around 250 down now.

You should be fine
 
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sixstanger00

sixstanger00

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How much power are you looking to make? Without forced induction, anything forged would be lots. no?

Monkey will likely be more helpful because he did the 4.3.

Mines just the 4.2 with the blower, wish i could have put forged internals while building it.


Edit: Monkey beat me to it :p

Orange,

I'm aiming for about 300 hp at the crank (that's an estimate of course.)

Here's a breakdown of the build:

3.8 block bored .50 over
Forged SCAT rods
4.3 crankshaft
Hypereutectic pistons (3.860 dia.)
SSM camshaft
Ported-to-match upper/lower intake manifold
Ported-to-match heads
CompCam beehive valve springs
CompCam hardened pushrods
CompCam lifters
CompCam aluminum rocker arms
Accufab 70mm throttlebody
SPEC aluminum flywheel
F1 Stage III clutch
ASP underdrive pulleys
24# fuel injectors
Aeromotive 310 lph fuel pump
hi-flo fuel filter
Re-tune on the ECU (of course)

I think that's about it, I am of course naming these off the top of my head. These are all of course in addition to the existing mods in my sig
 

g36 monkey

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Basically my build. I'd be a little nervous at 50 over, mine is only 30 over. But you can try it. You won't need a stage 3 clutch, in fact it could hurt you some. For roadcoursing and autox you want a nice smooth release, like what a stock clutch can give you. Personally, I'd go stock replacement, because then you can replace them for free when they go bad.

I'd also avoid the underdrive pulleys, they aren't worth the headaches they cause for the 2 or 3 rwhp.

What cam are you going with. You can save a few bucks by ordering straight from comp.
 

white95

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Are you ready for this?
















Pistons are manufactured via a cast or forged technique. Some consider hypereutectic pistons to be the “third manufacturing technique”, but as they are actually a cast piston with physical properties that fall between cast and forged pistons due to their unique aluminum alloy.

Cast pistons are made by pouring melted aluminum into a mold that shapes the metal into a piston.

Forged pistons are formed using a giant press that takes a block of metal and pounds it into shape under thousands of tons of pressure. The tooling needed to do this is much more expensive than the tooling used to make a casting, and it wears out quicker. This makes forged pistons more costly. Forged pistons have inherent advantages in terms of density, ultimate strength, and durability. Forging eliminates metal porosity, improves ductility, and generally allows the piston to run cooler than a cast unit. Within reason, forgings can be lightened without adversely affecting structural integrity. However, forged pistons expand and contract more under changing temperatures, so they traditionally require greater piston-to-wall clearance than cast pistons. The manufacturing technique produces a metal slug, which is then CNC milled to produce the final piston shape.

Piston Alloys

With regard to cast piston, they generally use aluminum alloys doped with silicone. Aluminum silicon alloys used fall into three major categories: eutectic, hypoeutectic, and hypereutectic. Probably the easiest way to describe these categories is to use the analogy of sugar added to a glass of iced tea. When sugar is added and stirred into the iced tea it dissolves and becomes inseparable from the iced tea. If sugar is continuously added, the tea actually becomes saturated with sugar and no matter how much you stir, the excess sugar will not mix in and simply falls to the bottom of the glass in crystal form.

Silicon additions to aluminum are very similar to the sugar addition to the iced tea. Silicon can be added and dissolved into aluminum so it, too, becomes inseparable from the aluminum. If these additions continue, the aluminum will eventually become saturated with silicon. Silicon added above this saturation point will precipitate out in the form of hard, primary silicon particles similar to the excess sugar in the iced tea.

This point of saturation in aluminum is known as the eutectic and occurs when the silicon level reaches 12%. Aluminum with silicon levels below 12% are known as hypoeutectic (the silicon is dissolved into the aluminum matrix). Aluminum with silicon levels above 12% are known as hypereutectic (aluminum with 16% silicon has 12% dissolved silicon and 4% shows up as primary silicon crystals).

Pistons produced from these alloy categories each have their own characteristics. Hypoeutectic pistons usually have about 9% silicon. This alloy has been the industry standard for many years but is being phased out in favor of eutectic and hypereutectic versions. Most eutectic pistons range from 11% to 12% silicon.

Eutectic alloys exhibit good strength and are economical to produce. Hypereutectic pistons have silicon content above 12%. In addition to greater strength, scuff, and seizure resistance, the hypereutectic will improve groove wear and resist cracking in the crown area where operating temperatures are severe.

It is the primary silicon that gives the hypereutectic it’s thermal and wear characteristics. The primary silicon acts as small insulators keeping the heat in the combustion chamber and prevents heat transfer, thus allowing the rest of the piston to run cooler. Hypereutectic aluminum has 15% less thermal expansion than conventional piston alloys.
 
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sixstanger00

sixstanger00

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Cam specs:

Duration: 240/250
Lift: .57/.59

I had originally planned to order the race cam from CompCams, but after talking to SSM, he said that CC makes their cams well within tolerances, to allow for a generous "safety net." The SSM cam is custom ground to maximize power output. (supposedly.) About $395 for the SSM cam

I've seen several builds that went .50 over.

I'm thinking about ordering my pistons from Summit.

How do I specify the CR I want? I'd like to get 10.1 CR if I can.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h521acp60/applications
 

g36 monkey

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I'd be lying to you if I told you how to do that. I had my machine shop order pistons to fit my motor, and I slapped it all together.

And dang. That's a big cam lol
 
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sixstanger00

sixstanger00

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I'll do a bit more homework on the pistons. I'm concerned about piston-to-valve clearance.

I also found the SCAT rods on Summit for about $465, 6.125" in length, which is the exact same rod SSM uses for "long rod" applications.

The pistons I see on Summit list Buick V6s as applications, so using those pistons with the SCAT rods is why I'm concerned about piston-to-valve clearance.

Here's a link to the page I got the cam specs from on SSM:
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_pdf/3.8_4.2/SSM2013catrev1CamsRockerArms.pdf
 

96TANGERINEGT

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So , wait u picked the biggest one they make ? , its gonna take a lot of port work to heads and intake , plus a nice amount of fuel and running for that cam to perform the way that they designed it to work ...
 
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sixstanger00

sixstanger00

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I'll check with the SSM guy again, I'm assuming that's the cam he was referring to.

Could be the one two steps below that (224/230 duration).

In any case, I can always compare specs to SSM and CompCam.

If the hypereutectic can hold up to 400 hp, that's probably the route I will go, since I'm on a po mane's budget here. Lol
 

g36 monkey

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Biggest off the shelf one from comp is 218/226 and .500 lift. That's what I have. I'd be worried about driveability much bigger than that, but you can give it a try! I'm interested to see.
 

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