sneaky98gt
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Ok, I'm more or less thinking out loud here, as none of this will happen until this fall at the earliest. I was discussing future mods with a few other car guys this weekend, and they really got me thinking. This is gonna be long winded, but I hope you guys will read through and tell me what you think.
Short Version
What do you think of a VERY conservatively tuned, SMALL, 50 hp dry shot MAX, on my non-intercooled Eaton setup? I'm not looking to exceed 375 rwhp +/-. Would it be relatively safe?
Tom Clancy Version
So, my car is a street car, plain and simple. For those that don't know, I'm running a stock motor, stock auto transmission, stock rear gears, bolt on, non-intercooled roots-style supercharged car. While it does see the track several times through the year, it's primary purpose is to get me from point A to point B, to the tune of about 20,000 miles per year. While I like to go fast, and I don't mind paying for that, I dislike having to pay for it when I'm NOT going fast. Hence the reason I went with a blower instead of staying NA. Therefore, mods left to do to my car:
1. Gears. Would definitely see a nice gain at the track and in the SOTP meter with a set of 3.73s over the stock 3.27s. However, after doing lots of data collecting, it seems the average MPG loss on the highway when doing that swap is around 3 mpg. That doesn't sound like much, but over the course of 20,000 miles, with gas at $3.25 a gallon, it adds up. Add the installation cost, and we get $750 + $350/year.
2. Cams. Also would see a nice gain. Pretty high parts and labor price considering I'd have to get another tune. Also like gears, I suspect I'd see at least 3 mpg less in fuel mileage. Plus the loss of driveability. Bottom line, I'm looking at $1000 + $400/year and a loss in driveability, no matter how small.
3. Methanol + More Boost. While I'd see a nice 30-40 rwhp bump with no loss in fuel mileage or driveability from this (it would definitely get dyno tuned), I have two problems with doing it. First, the issue of daily driving it. I can either have it tuned to run the meth all the time (which would have me refilling it pretty often, i.e. expensive), or have a separate non-meth tune; the non-meth tune would be cheaper and easier, but I can't imagine 9 pounds of non-intercooled boost (ALL the time) being very friendly (or safe) in the hot summer months. My second problem with the methanol is the safety. If the car is tuned for using the methanol, and the meth system somehow fails, there is no good 'backup' to keep from exploding a few rings and subsequently destroying the motor. That doesn't make me feel very comfortable with it. Assuming I ran the methanol all the time, and it takes 1 gallon per tank of gas, I'm looking at $800 + $500/year.
4. Nitrous. My idea is to run a small (35-50 hp, absolutely no more) dry shot, primarily to cool the ridiculously hot intake charge. I like this because I'd get the same cooling effect of the methanol, but with the added benefit of a few extra oxygen molecules. I don't like the idea of a wet shot because of the risk of backfires, which would probably destroy my blower, plus the fact that a wet kit is more expensive/complicated. I see simplicity as a good thing in my case, and considering all the fuel upgrades I already have, I'm pretty sure a dry shot would satisfy my needs; I also seeing a tuned dry shot being "safe" in that some kind of nitrous system failure wouldn't really hurt anything, other than a decent ET. I'd like to get a confirmation, but I'm pretty sure my 90 mm Lightning MAF, 39 pound Cobra injectors, and SVT Focus fuel pump would provide enough fuel for a small shot. I would get a very, VERY conservative tune for the nitrous, which would ONLY be used at the track a few times a year, and leave my other (current) tune alone. This would leave my mileage and driveability untouched and exactly where I want it. Going by other people's estimates, one bottle would probably last me two track trips, which would amount to a generous $200/year in nitrous. Add the parts and tune, and I get $750 + $200/year.
What I want you guy's input on:
1. From the fuel mileage, driveability, SOTP meter, fun/$ aspects, would you choose the nitrous as well? From here on out, I'll assume you do.
2. Wet or dry? Is my above reasoning for getting a dry kit logical?
3. Are my 39 pound injectors, 90 mm MAF, and Focus pump enough for a 50 hp shot on top of my current setup?
4. What kind of power gains do you think I'd get with a 50 hp shot? Is a safe 50 rwhp possible? What kind of torque numbers would it make? 450+ rwtq? Considering that it would combine cooling and the extra oxygen, I think that it would be possible to get 75 rwhp out of a 50 hp shot, but I'd have it tuned way back down for safety's sake.
Finally, and most importantly, Safety.
What are your thoughts on the safety? Some places I've read say to go for it, but most people are like, "ZOMG you are totally gonna blow the motor if you even attempt that!!!! Forget it!!!" The problem with them is that I'm 99% sure they are assuming you're already running 9+ pounds of boost, already making 380+ rwhp, you're not going to tune it, and are going to spray a 125 hp shot on top of that. Well, yes, duh, it's not gonna last. In my situation, I'm talking a small, VERY conservatively TUNED, 50 hp MAX shot. 375 rwhp +/-. Which would only be used a few times a year anyway. Is 375 rwhp on a lower boost supercharged/nitrous car really any more dangerous than a 375 rwhp higher boost supercharged only car? I can't see why it would be. But maybe I'm misinformed. Inform me.
Torque. What are the limits of the stock motor in terms of torque? I suspect I'd make more than I'd think I would. Definitely 400+. Is that safe on a stock motor?
Bottom line
Nitrous Pros
1. Cheapest initial cost
2. Cheapest running cost
3. Best driveability situation
4. Best fuel mileage situation
5. Most power
6. "Safe" in that the consequences for a failure are small.
Nitrous Cons
1. Will the motor hold it....?
2. I know I'll probably want to pill it up sooner or later....
And I think that's it. Let me know your thoughts on this, even if you don't know anything about it. Looking to get a discussion going that will talk me into or out of my current little fad, and for the info of future inquirers (considering I couldn't find any good info on it).
Short Version
What do you think of a VERY conservatively tuned, SMALL, 50 hp dry shot MAX, on my non-intercooled Eaton setup? I'm not looking to exceed 375 rwhp +/-. Would it be relatively safe?
Tom Clancy Version
So, my car is a street car, plain and simple. For those that don't know, I'm running a stock motor, stock auto transmission, stock rear gears, bolt on, non-intercooled roots-style supercharged car. While it does see the track several times through the year, it's primary purpose is to get me from point A to point B, to the tune of about 20,000 miles per year. While I like to go fast, and I don't mind paying for that, I dislike having to pay for it when I'm NOT going fast. Hence the reason I went with a blower instead of staying NA. Therefore, mods left to do to my car:
1. Gears. Would definitely see a nice gain at the track and in the SOTP meter with a set of 3.73s over the stock 3.27s. However, after doing lots of data collecting, it seems the average MPG loss on the highway when doing that swap is around 3 mpg. That doesn't sound like much, but over the course of 20,000 miles, with gas at $3.25 a gallon, it adds up. Add the installation cost, and we get $750 + $350/year.
2. Cams. Also would see a nice gain. Pretty high parts and labor price considering I'd have to get another tune. Also like gears, I suspect I'd see at least 3 mpg less in fuel mileage. Plus the loss of driveability. Bottom line, I'm looking at $1000 + $400/year and a loss in driveability, no matter how small.
3. Methanol + More Boost. While I'd see a nice 30-40 rwhp bump with no loss in fuel mileage or driveability from this (it would definitely get dyno tuned), I have two problems with doing it. First, the issue of daily driving it. I can either have it tuned to run the meth all the time (which would have me refilling it pretty often, i.e. expensive), or have a separate non-meth tune; the non-meth tune would be cheaper and easier, but I can't imagine 9 pounds of non-intercooled boost (ALL the time) being very friendly (or safe) in the hot summer months. My second problem with the methanol is the safety. If the car is tuned for using the methanol, and the meth system somehow fails, there is no good 'backup' to keep from exploding a few rings and subsequently destroying the motor. That doesn't make me feel very comfortable with it. Assuming I ran the methanol all the time, and it takes 1 gallon per tank of gas, I'm looking at $800 + $500/year.
4. Nitrous. My idea is to run a small (35-50 hp, absolutely no more) dry shot, primarily to cool the ridiculously hot intake charge. I like this because I'd get the same cooling effect of the methanol, but with the added benefit of a few extra oxygen molecules. I don't like the idea of a wet shot because of the risk of backfires, which would probably destroy my blower, plus the fact that a wet kit is more expensive/complicated. I see simplicity as a good thing in my case, and considering all the fuel upgrades I already have, I'm pretty sure a dry shot would satisfy my needs; I also seeing a tuned dry shot being "safe" in that some kind of nitrous system failure wouldn't really hurt anything, other than a decent ET. I'd like to get a confirmation, but I'm pretty sure my 90 mm Lightning MAF, 39 pound Cobra injectors, and SVT Focus fuel pump would provide enough fuel for a small shot. I would get a very, VERY conservative tune for the nitrous, which would ONLY be used at the track a few times a year, and leave my other (current) tune alone. This would leave my mileage and driveability untouched and exactly where I want it. Going by other people's estimates, one bottle would probably last me two track trips, which would amount to a generous $200/year in nitrous. Add the parts and tune, and I get $750 + $200/year.
What I want you guy's input on:
1. From the fuel mileage, driveability, SOTP meter, fun/$ aspects, would you choose the nitrous as well? From here on out, I'll assume you do.
2. Wet or dry? Is my above reasoning for getting a dry kit logical?
3. Are my 39 pound injectors, 90 mm MAF, and Focus pump enough for a 50 hp shot on top of my current setup?
4. What kind of power gains do you think I'd get with a 50 hp shot? Is a safe 50 rwhp possible? What kind of torque numbers would it make? 450+ rwtq? Considering that it would combine cooling and the extra oxygen, I think that it would be possible to get 75 rwhp out of a 50 hp shot, but I'd have it tuned way back down for safety's sake.
Finally, and most importantly, Safety.
What are your thoughts on the safety? Some places I've read say to go for it, but most people are like, "ZOMG you are totally gonna blow the motor if you even attempt that!!!! Forget it!!!" The problem with them is that I'm 99% sure they are assuming you're already running 9+ pounds of boost, already making 380+ rwhp, you're not going to tune it, and are going to spray a 125 hp shot on top of that. Well, yes, duh, it's not gonna last. In my situation, I'm talking a small, VERY conservatively TUNED, 50 hp MAX shot. 375 rwhp +/-. Which would only be used a few times a year anyway. Is 375 rwhp on a lower boost supercharged/nitrous car really any more dangerous than a 375 rwhp higher boost supercharged only car? I can't see why it would be. But maybe I'm misinformed. Inform me.
Torque. What are the limits of the stock motor in terms of torque? I suspect I'd make more than I'd think I would. Definitely 400+. Is that safe on a stock motor?
Bottom line
Nitrous Pros
1. Cheapest initial cost
2. Cheapest running cost
3. Best driveability situation
4. Best fuel mileage situation
5. Most power
6. "Safe" in that the consequences for a failure are small.
Nitrous Cons
1. Will the motor hold it....?
2. I know I'll probably want to pill it up sooner or later....
And I think that's it. Let me know your thoughts on this, even if you don't know anything about it. Looking to get a discussion going that will talk me into or out of my current little fad, and for the info of future inquirers (considering I couldn't find any good info on it).
