off the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Does anyone know if I can use my 1996 GT a/c plumbing on my 2004 cobra motor. :dontknow: im leaning towards no.

I will check it here shortly in my dealer manuals for 1996GT and 2003Cobra, but i figured maybe someone knew off the top of their head... :eek:ccasion14:
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

I don't know the answer to your question. But I have the solution to your problem. I have the complete a/c system off of my 03 Mach1 parts car.
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

perfect, i might take you up on that. I'll try do my HW tonight. >.<
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

Here is everything accept the evaporator and condensor. The condensor was a twisted mess. The receiver/dryer is probably no good. The tape came off of the ends and I am sure it is saturated. But the a/c system was full and worked when I looked at the car.

hh014-vi.jpg
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

awesome... ill dig out the books and start looking part numbers up. thanks, brotha!
 

whty98

Active Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
263
Reaction score
0
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

I'd think they'd be the same. My compressor from my GT bolted strait to my 96 cobra engine, but the 03 has more lines in the way for the IC. Who knows, good luck and let us know what you find
 

reivaxtorres

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
2
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

did you ever get the recall done on the 96? if you did, then they are the exact same and you should be able to reuse the 96 items. if the recall was never done, then they are different (the condenser is different) and i would suggest you upgrade to the revised style so your car doesnt run too hot when the A/C is on.
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

anyone want to help me out on this one... i spent all night tonight working on this and im only more confused. evaporator, accumulator, condensor, .. . . .. wtf?
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

The condensor is the radiator looking thingy in front of the car. The evaporator is the heater core looking thingy in the heater box. The accumulator is what I am calling a receiver/drier, the big black looking canister under the hood. This has a desicant in it to filter out the moisture from inside the a/c system. It also houses what we used to call the expansion valve. The expansion valve used to be a seperate part in the system but it is now contained in the receiver/drier. In the pic I posted above the accumulator/receiver/drier is the big metal jonger woth 3 metal tubes coming off of it.

The one in the pic I am going to say with 99% certainty is no good. They need to remain sealed so humidity is not allowed to enter, otherwise the desecant becomes saturated and ineffective as a filter.
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

okay. well, i know the condensor and the accumulator are the same... as well as one of the pipes (goes from the accumlator to the pump thing on the engine)

The evaporator is the same as well. at least according to LMR's part numbers....

THanks for the help Matt, I will keep in touch on those other lines!
-Chris
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

The pump thingy is called a compressor.
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

ah. what does it compress, and why?
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

MustangChris said:
ah. what does it compress, and why?

I hope you are kidding, but if not it pumps R134a refridgerant through your a/c system.
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

okay. does it actually compress it, or simply pump it?
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

Yes, it does actually compress the R134a.
 

NXcoupe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
80
Re: of the top of your head... 4v A/C and 2v A/C

reivaxtorres said:
did you ever get the recall done on the 96? if you did, then they are the exact same and you should be able to reuse the 96 items. if the recall was never done, then they are different (the condenser is different) and i would suggest you upgrade to the revised style so your car doesnt run too hot when the A/C is on.
Here's your answer, he is correct, there is no difference. They interchange


Now, for A/C 101, I will be your teacher. The way A/C works is like this, ever sit a cold pop can down outside on a hot summer day? You notice the water drops forming on it? And what happens to your pop? It gets warm. The reason it gets warm is because of the condensation that forms on the outside of the can, but more on that later.
The next thing is have you spilled something outside on a hot day? Like a pop, beer or water? It evaporates right? disappears, from the liquid heating up and turning to water vapor in the air, kind of like a kettle of boiling water puts off steam that disappears and fills the house with water vapor that condenses on any cool, usually glass, surface?
Ok, now we have our two terms, evaporation and condensation, when something evaporates, it takes heat or energy(the hot concrete, sun, etc.) to make it go from a liquid form into a gas. Well, when it goes from a vapor back into a liquid, it has to release that heat right? Thats the reason a cold surface like a pop can or window glass gets that water or fog on it. So when something evaporates, it needs to absorb heat from it's surroundings, and it absorbs this heat until it reaches its energy peak for evaporation, at which time it turns from liquid into a gas, or vapor. When it condences and goes from a gas, or vapor back into a liquid, it gives off that heat, so it has to give off or release that heat, usually onto a cool or cold surface, so that's why your pop gets warm. Thats the purpose of a can cuzzi, it wraps the can and keeps the water from condensing on it and releasing its heat of evaporation into the pop.
So we have our two terms defined, evaporation and condensation, one absorbs heat, one releases or gives off heat. So in an a/c system, you want the hot air inside the car turned into cool air, and that heat taken out of the inside of the passenger compartment and moved outside. how do we accomplish this? Well, when something evaporates it needs to absorb heat from it's surroundings, so what better source than the hot air inside your car? And when it condenses, it has to give off that heat right? So what better place than a radiator right out in front of the fan stuck into the airflow coming from the grille of the car.
The compressor compresses the refrigerant gas. We use a gas because gasses quickly evapoarte when they have been turned into a liquid, kind of like the liquid air things people use to spray off their computers. So the compressor pumps and compresses the gas into a high pressure, very hot gas. That is pushed through the system by the compressor continually putting out more compressed gas, we'll get to where it comes from in a minute. But as it comes out into the small lines as a high pressure gas, it goes into the condensor, (get it? the name says what it does) where that high pressure gas gets condensed(by giving off its energy(heat) of evaporation) and turns into a high pressure liquid. This then leaves the condensor in another small pipe or hose, and travels towards the firewall, and into the evaporator(guess what happens in it?). Now there's one more thing inline before it reaches the evaporator, and that is some form of restriction, usually an orifice tube, a tube sealed into the larger tube, that goes down to a tiny hole, so that only a small amount of the high pressure liquid makes it through. Kind of like filling your mouth with water and puckering your lips as you spray out a fine mist of liquid, this allows it to evaporate very quickly and cool down it's surroundings fast. It also serves another purpose, that is to seperate the high pressure from the low pressure inside the evaporator. As this sprays into the evaporator, the liquid starts to draw the heat from the coils of the evaporator and as it sucks this heat out it makes the evaporator surface get very very cold, so as the hot air comes in, it drops off it's energy(heat) and exits as nice cool air. As the liquid evaporates it becomes a low pressure gas, and the compressor sucks it into itself through the large hoses, after it has been drawn through the receiver drier to eliminate any moisture that could freeze up and cause problems inside the system.
Hope that helps.
 
OP
OP
MustangChris

MustangChris

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
27,425
Reaction score
909
Location
Aurora, CO
its hard to get the mentality of the engine cooling system out of my head, ya know?

I hate A/C systems...... .. .

so. the R134a is in the system...

It gets compressed into a gas (thus getting hotter)
then pushed through the condensor at the front of the car to make it into a cold liquid.

Then it goes to the the passenger compartment. The cold liquid gets pushed through the evaporator, where it turns into a gas, due to the warm outside air being blown through it. it is litterally "robbing" the heat from the new air. so instead of "creating" cold, its simply "stealing" heat?

Now it is a hot gas again. Goes through the dryer to remove excess moisture.

Then off the compressor to be compressed into a hot(ter) gas again.

Pumped through the condensor to become a cold liquid again?


Is this right????

if so:
How does the Hot outside air cool the R134a cold enough? I imagine 100*F air outside blowing on the condensor might change it to liquid, but how does the air coming from my vents get to ... 65*F? I read here on the forum a while back that the R134a actually boils in the system at some point? did i mis-understand something?

if not:
please correct me. ... I feel like im missing a step or something...

warm gas gets compressed. now "hot gas" ~125*F (for example)
Hot gas goes through "radiator" and gets cooled to "~100*F" by outside air.
hot gas is now 100*F liquid.
liquid goes through my evaporator and gets hit by "~100*F" outside air and turns back into gas. air is now blowing 65* out of my vents (???????????)
then hot gas goes through dryer and back to be compressed
 

NXcoupe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
80
MustangChris said:
its hard to get the mentality of the engine cooling system out of my head, ya know?

I hate A/C systems...... .. .

so. the R134a is in the system...

It gets compressed into a gas (thus getting hotter)
then pushed through the condensor at the front of the car to make it into a cold liquid.

Then it goes to the the passenger compartment. The cold liquid gets pushed through the evaporator, where it turns into a gas, due to the warm outside air being blown through it. it is litterally "robbing" the heat from the new air. so instead of "creating" cold, its simply "stealing" heat?

Now it is a hot gas again. Goes through the dryer to remove excess moisture.

Then off the compressor to be compressed into a hot(ter) gas again.

Pumped through the condensor to become a cold liquid again?


Is this right????

if so:
How does the Hot outside air cool the R134a cold enough? I imagine 100*F air outside blowing on the condensor might change it to liquid, but how does the air coming from my vents get to ... 65*F? I read here on the forum a while back that the R134a actually boils in the system at some point? did i mis-understand something?

if not:
please correct me. ... I feel like im missing a step or something...

warm gas gets compressed. now "hot gas" ~125*F (for example)
Hot gas goes through "radiator" and gets cooled to "~100*F" by outside air.
hot gas is now 100*F liquid.
liquid goes through my evaporator and gets hit by "~100*F" outside air and turns back into gas. air is now blowing 65* out of my vents (???????????)
then hot gas goes through dryer and back to be compressed
Yeah, confusing because it's incorrect. It does not get 'cooled' to cool your air in the evaporator. It is condensed and only cooled some, to turn it into a liquid. When you poke a hole in a can of freon(R134), the can will get freezing cold and have ice form on it, that's because it is compressed under a very high pressure, and that's the point you missed. When it comes as a very hot liquid out of the condensor, it is under VERY high pressure, somewhere in the 250 psi range, when it is sprayed through the orifice into the evaporator, the pressure drops from 250 down to about 40 to 50 psi, THATS what causes the liquid gas to turn back into a gas and you put it very well, it robs the heat from the incoming air and it's surroundings and cools everything down.
So, the only thing you left out is, that the high pressure keeps the gas a liquid, but it's still very hot coming out of the condensor. So to illustrate that, if you set a can of freon out in the sun, the internal pressure can reach a very high pressure, but still have liquid in it, because pressure causes gasses to turn into liquids. But as soon as you punch a hole in that can(look out), the pressure drops dramatically down to atmospheric pressure and the liquid will 'boil' off into a gas, taking its heat of evaporation from it's surroundings.
this is simple high school physics. You've got it, just don't forget the pressure is a big part of the process. High pressure is the hot side, low pressure is the cool side that goes back into the compressor to get pressurized which heats it up into a super hot gas, then the condensor cools it so it condenses into a HIGH PRESSURE liquid, because freon is a gas in it's natural(atmospheric pressure) state, so it take pressure and a lowering in temp to turn it into a liquid. then when it hits the evaporator, it evaporates from a high pressure liquid into a low pressure gas.
Hope that clears it up a little more for ya, like I said, you had it all correct, but left out the pressure factor.
 

uncltrvlnmatt

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
35
Location
Pa.
A little long winded explenation but that sums it up. You did forget about the thermostat at the evaporator. The thermostat measures the evaporator temp so that it does not turn into a block of ice. That is why you a/c compressor is always cycling or turning on and off. Also there is a high presure switch that shuts the a/c system down incase of a part failure. The most common high presure problem you will get is the small orifice getting clogged not allowing the R134a to pass through. That is usually caused by the receiver/dryer desicant getting saturated, breaking apart and going through the system.

In my expiriences with working on a/c systems the high side(Hot red gauge) presures are normally in the 180-200psi range and the low side (Cold blue gauge) is in the 60-80psi range.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
77,492
Messages
1,503,739
Members
14,965
Latest member
wbarter

Members online

Top