Questions, some may be duplicate.... but............

forkliftfixr · Oct 29, 2007

Wife is on me something fierce to finish my 94, I am currently building a 351W stroker motor, however she keeps stealing the car and driving it. I want to rebuild the STOCK 302 that is in it because my initial plans for the swap with the 351 are about 2 years out.

The stock motor has about 140K on it, it whistles and wines and leaks oil, she is tired. I want to rebuild the 302 this winter, maybe come close to about 300HP (if it doesnt hit that mark oh well) I however am NOT going to dump any more than maybe $2,000.00 into the rebuild. Lets assume it needs to be bored, I will probably go 30 or 40 over, stock crank, "maybe" a new set of heads and I will be installing a new EFI intake (performance products found this stuff used on E-bay) along with a 70mm throttle body and a new mass air flow sensor. I have the O2 eliminators, smog pump and AC eliminate kit and will bypass the EGR. I DO NOT have access to anyone local who knows jack crap about reprograming chips and quite honestly there isnt even a local dyno anywhere around. What is the biggest cam I can use along with other mods and then put Nitrous on the engine and still get away with using the STOCK computer? I just want something we can go out with next summer burn the tires off and have a nice lopy idle that will make people "THINK" it has more than it does. This way I can still drive the car, and so can the wife and keep her off of my butt for the summer, and still be able to start in with the frame mods and such as it is being driven. Wont be taking it on trips or long drives either.... Please excuse my ignorance but as I mentioned when I first joined this site I am an old school FOX body person, I got this SN95 CHEAP and didnt know they had changed from FOX until I found this site. (this car was hit in the front, deployed the air bags and then was rebuilt minus the air bags, however the car has a CLEAN title so it doesnt show salvage) I am only asking this because there seems to be a lot of different opinions, and a lot are leaning tword the "you cant do that without a programable chip" There HAS to be a way around the ECU, I DONT want to dump a lot into that area because the ECU and all computer crap are going to vanish when the 351 gets installed. I am open to ALL suggestions as to what you might do. Thanks everyone!

95Grandtouring5.0 · Oct 29, 2007

Trickflow offers a package for around 2400 that comes with heads cam intake rockers basically everything you need and is suppose to put you around 350 motor horsepower. So if you dont mind spending a little extra that is the way to go.

trav_19 · Oct 29, 2007

swap in a more friendly fox computer ....im in the same boat as you lol....im building my 351w stroker (408) carb'd setup and im spending as little money as i can on the current one as possible since its coming out shortly i hope but i already have nitrous on the car and i want to add a cam this winter ...but dont want to pay for a dyno tune ...seems pointless to me ...i have been runing the motor on nitrous for awhile now without a tune and its running fine but im curious how it will run with a small cam and deleting the egr...smog equiptment and misc.other things...im not to concerned with blowing up my motor because of the stroker that will be replacing it but....its not quite ready so im up in the air as to what i should do....

forkliftfixr · Oct 29, 2007

Trav-- You are just down 94 from me... Battle Creek here.

Explain this Fox computer swap, I have access to a few of them as a buddy owns a salvage yard.

Also, where is this info on the Trick Flow setup? Still interested in what others have to say about what lift cam I can run if I stay with the SN95 ECU

trav_19 · Oct 29, 2007

forkliftfixr said:
Trav-- You are just down 94 from me... Battle Creek here.

Explain this Fox computer swap, I have access to a few of them as a buddy owns a salvage yard.

Also, where is this info on the Trick Flow setup? Still interested in what others have to say about what lift cam I can run if I stay with the SN95 ECU

the computer swap is kidna a ..looked down on thing haha but i will ask my friend..hr sold his 95 but he did the swap to like a 92 car computer to run his efi stuff before he sold it...im not to sure whats involved i dont know exactly if its just unplug and swap or if you need the whole harness or what.....

but the H/C/I HOLLY systemax II is a good kit...its also another 300+ motor hp kit...also around 2500 ...i plan on using like a f cam around a 512 lift i will let you know if it causes major issues with the comp...i would say stay under a 500 lift and it shouldn't be to bad... but if you do a h/c/i you will need a tune...if you just want a cam for lope and dont care too much about performance right now then you should be ok

scott5 · Oct 29, 2007

Def do the Trickflow kit if you want performance, durability, and a setup that you know is going to work. MY buddy did this and still yet has to get a tune and runs 12.3s

Spd0lit · Oct 29, 2007

one thing i noticed with your post is that you have o2 eliminators. Please put the o2s back because you car will suffer from horrible mileage. The 96-98 need them because they have o2s after the cats but with the ecc-lV we only have 2 before the cats. The only reason for o2 eliminators is to trick the computer that you have 4 o2 sensors when you only have 2.

forkliftfixr · Oct 29, 2007

OK, on the O2 eliminators, they are not installed yet.... I have been getting pieces and parts to put this together this winter. The reasoning behind the O2 eliminators is this.... No CATS will be on the car when the 302 is rebuilt. I have long tube headders from Summit, Was planning on cherry bombs at the collectors and pipe out the back, maybe a X pipe. Michigan does not have emission testing (yet) The reason for this thinking is this.... I have an 03 Durango with a 5.9 (360 Magnum) and I eliminated the CAT as well as installed Headers and 2 1/2 inch exaust with an H pipe, Flowmasters, K&N cold air intake and a few other mods (sorry I know this isnt a Dodge forum) and increased my gas mileage big time! I just took a 900 mile trip and didnt have to refince my house to pay for the fuel. I was thinking the same thing would hold true for the Mustang? If everyone seems to agree that the O2 eliminators are a waste I will figure out a way to keep them incorperated into the system? I am going to eliminate the restrictive CATS though, kinda set on my idea of a snappy annoying exaust sound.

Why is the FOX ECU swap looked down on? Besides what I picture of having a rats nest of wires laying everywhere trying to figure out what the heck to plug the wires back into.

Can anyone give me some links to these "kits" that have been spoken of? I did a search for Trick Flow and their web site has no mention of "kits" nor does summit or Jegs.

Stangbangin · Oct 29, 2007

tRaV_19 said:
swap in a more friendly fox computer ....im in the same boat as you lol....im building my 351w stroker (408) carb'd setup and im spending as little money as i can on the current one as possible since its coming out shortly i hope but i already have nitrous on the car and i want to add a cam this winter ...but dont want to pay for a dyno tune ...seems pointless to me ...i have been runing the motor on nitrous for awhile now without a tune and its running fine but im curious how it will run with a small cam and deleting the egr...smog equiptment and misc.other things...im not to concerned with blowing up my motor because of the stroker that will be replacing it but....its not quite ready so im up in the air as to what i should do....

I would only swap the computer IF you plan on never getting a tune. If its tuned I heard the sn95 computers actually being just as good. Its just that in stock form they don't take mods well but if tuned will do just fine.

forkliftfixr · Oct 29, 2007

I plan on NEVER getting a tune.... There isnt anyone local or even remotely local who knows diddly about tuning even a rice burner. I just want to get this thing running and have some fun with it next summer while the stroker is built, when the 351 gets dropped in the computer and any traces of the computer are going to be given to anyone that needs spare parts. The only electronics will be the lights, guages and radio and ignition system, NO computers anywhere.

All I am looking to do with the STOCK computer is rebuild the 302 that is in there so the wife can go out and burn the tires off once in a while.... Cause when the wife is happy :rockyou: I get to keep "Toys" in the garage. I wish you guys could see the smile on her face when she tears down the road in this thing now exaust leak, whistle and all now, Even my daughter beggs to drive this thing around the block. (My wife LOVES to sqeel the tires on my Durango and she loves the loud exaust) Just help me throw something together that she and my daughter can have fun with next summer..... Then when she asks "Why so much for that motor?" all I have to say is... "It will be a LOT faster hun" and she wont ask any more questions.

Spd0lit · Oct 29, 2007

The 94-95s only have 2 o2s unlike the 96-98 which have 4. Ok so the 94-95s have the 2 o2s in front of the cats so none of the sampling of the oxygens sensors ever see that you don't have cats, but in a 96-98 the main function of the extra 2 o2s are to see that you have cats or not.

utofcloset: So you should try and send those back or on ebay because you need to have o2s to function properly and your car only has 2 to begin with so eliminating them would hinder your setup.

As for loud raspy and anoying can't beat longtubes, x-pipe, and magnapacs or slp loudmouths. Either one of those will make your ears bleed.

slp
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/wm/730923bd-d661-45a5-b00a-996e01826891.htm

magnapacks
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/86d44915-0a47-427c-99bf-98870093df77.htm

trav_19 · Oct 29, 2007

keep the o2's i would say stay away from a trick flow hci or any other ...because the wife will say it runs good enough now why do you need a new motor...just get something small maybe a cam possibly a intake but heads are a bad investment in my eyes a 351 stroker will require larger flowing heads then what you want to throw on a 302....and for only a year i think its more of a waste then getting a tune to be honest...get a cold air kit tune up small cam and nitrous she will love the ride...then drop in the sweet stroker

forkliftfixr · Oct 30, 2007

Ok, here is what I believe I will do...... It is obvious I will want to keep the O2 sensors, DONE I will keep those. How far back from the collectors should they be installed? Maybe I will get an aftermarket X pipe and they will have provisions for them? Next I will do a semi stock rebuild but the question still is out there as to the biggest cam profile I can install without moofing up the computer... I want a loopy idle again for the sound. Keep all stock EFI parts but if I put the juice to it should I go the larger throttle body and MAF? Are the stock injectors and fuel pump enough to handle say maybe a 100 or 125 shot? I will do some mild work on the heads, since I can do that myself. Any other tweaks or tricks anyone can think of?

Oh, and Trav.... LOL, My wife would never say..."thats fast enough, why another motor?" I have an 07 Harley FXDCI that came straight home from the showroom (22 miles) and the stock 88CI Motor got replaced with a 110CI Screaming Eagle. She never raised an eyebrow.