Transmission Question

[Brian95SVT]

Hey everyone. [not sure if JR is around or if anyone else knows transmission very well but here]

So I was talking with a buddy of mine yesterday about all the stuff I'm doing to my mustang as far as fixing it and how it's coming. We got on the topic of after it's all fixed, am I actually going to mod it. My response was, "Yes, I would like to". He said I should make a list of the mods (realistically) that I want and just work towards getting each one when I can. So today I did. One of them being getting my transmission built and a 3200 stall.

I was surfing the net and found some videos of automatic GTs with stalls and built transmissions and it really made me want one.

So I went researching and found a bunch of different places I could buy a built transmission from but I'm not sure what all components I need to look for when getting one built.

I will post the mod list I made with the small adjustments that could or could not happen (never know what the future holds) so you have an idea of what mods might come into play later. (this list is subject to change due to money flow and all. I could get a blower or I might stay NA)

Mod List:

-4.10 gears (first)
-3200 stall
-Get transmission built
-New B&M Hammer shifter (mine's not in the best of conditions) with B&M quickshift knob
-Shift kit (not sure which one yet, maybe jmod if I can find a place to buy it from)
-Transmission cooler (maybe B&M but haven't picked a specific company)
-PI Heads
-HiTech Stage 2 Cams (or keep PI cams and go with a blower, if the money is right. if not i'll stay NA with these HiTech Cams)
-Bee hive valve-train
-JLT CAI (wouldn't need if I went blower but if not I would)
-BBK TB & Plenum
-SCT X-Cal 3 Tune



With all that said, what should I be looking for when I look into transmissions. I know that you can just get a upgraded hard intermediate shaft and a rebuild kit and be ok but longevity is something I want to ensure by doing things right the first time.



-Brian

 

[Dalamar]

Ooooh, I've been looking at rebuilding my stock R470 for the last while. let me share what I've found out, hopefully it will answer some of your ?s

I've talked with Lentec and done some research and I'm thinking - why can't I have mine rebuilt locally for less money?
I found a local guy (Ashcroft Transmissions) thats been doing automatics for a looong time. he was cool enough to have me bring mine in and tear it down while I was there.
He showed me the different parts, and how they work ect. and what he's seen go bad over the years.
Based on his experience and what I saw in my transmission, I'm going to rebuild mine.

I think there's No need to spend a few extra GRAND on a brand name transmission, when you can have a local shop rebuild the one you have.
I'm not saying "brand name" parts arn't a good thing... but Apparently, the R4 is a pretty good transmission!
He told me the most common problem he's seen comes from 2 of the snap rings in there - the end's break off, and the pieces getting jammed up inside and tear things up.

You can replace these with an updated ring, approx a $5 part, and rebuild the rest.
He said the stock clutches are fine, and "aftermarket" clutches don't do anything special.

Here's something I didn't know - the transmission it's self runs on bearings, so it genereates almost no heat. just a little when the clutches are engauging. Almost all the heat comes from the staul convertor!

You'll definaltely want a cooler.
He also recommended getting a deeper pan that holds more oil. this also helps with the cooling.

An updated staul converter makes the biggest difference in drivablilty and take-off. Get one made to your car's specs.
I didn't ask many questions about the valve body because I have a Lentec valve body I bought about 3 years ago. I'm going to just use that.

He recommend NOT getting a shift kit because the pressure spikes and changes in the shift timing causes wear.
the staul convertor and shift timing of the valve body should work together and efficiently. the valve body can be calibrated to make the shifts firmer.


So that's the rought I'm going as soon as I can sell my TKO setup.
I hope you find this info helpfull.

 

[Brian95SVT]

Dal, thanks man. You have always stepped in on my threads when need be to share some very good information.

I learned a good amount just reading that.

The only thing I am curious about are the shafts (input and intermediate). The reason I bring this up is because two guys I know have semi built transmissions and theirs were taken to local shops and were rebuilt and had a hard intermediate shaft put it and they run 11s all day long and drive it daily. I'm wondering if that's all I have to do.

I will have to find out exactly where they went and see how much it would cost. Stall converters are expensive. I figure the TCI makes a good one and I should go with them.

I figure a 3200 stall should be good enough for what I have now and what I will be doing in the future. Shouldn't need anything bigger.

Let me know if you find anything else out and thanks again for the great information/feedback.

 

[Brian95SVT]

My current setup:

BBK Shorty headers
BBK Catted X-Pipe
Flowmaster catback
PI Intake


The mod list above is what I want to do over time.

 

[Willis_98GT]

brian, while you have your heads off for the pi swap. throw longtubes in there. thats what i did and it was the easiest longtube job ever!

your list looks good, it should be a peppy car whenever its all done.

 

[Brian95SVT]

I already have shorty headers, I don't have extra cash for long tubes. I'm not worried about it. I will get long tubes LONG down the road. I have other things to worry about ya know.

It's going to take a long time to get that stuff done... since I'm going back to school... hopefully I'll land another job and instead of spending money on worthless items I'll actually mod the stang this time around...

 

[justinschmidt1]

Theres really not much that needs to be improved with the 4r70w for it to handle good power.

Some better clutch plates, hardened shaft, kevlar o/d band, j mod the valvebody, and a good cooler should make it handle anything you can throw at it.

 

[Brian95SVT]

Dalamar said that the clutches wouldn't need to be replaced

I figure a rebuild kit, hardened shaft and a jmod valvebody with a cooler would be enough?

 

[justinschmidt1]

Dalamar said that the clutches wouldn't need to be replaced

I figure a rebuild kit, hardened shaft and a jmod valvebody with a cooler would be enough?

They don't need to be, but if your doing a rebuild, why not?

Thats really up to you.

 

[Dalamar]

for clarification he said the ford clutches work great, and he's seen no improvement with aftermarket clutches.
if they're burned they will be black, if they're in good shape they will still look brown.

I'll have to check on the shafts, see what they're rated at.
I kinda think - just because someone somewhere has broken a part, that doesn't mean it needs to be replaced.
I also think that under 400HP the stock shafts should be fine.

 

[Brian95SVT]

for clarification he said the ford clutches work great, and he's seen no improvement with aftermarket clutches.
if they're burned they will be black, if they're in good shape they will still look brown.

I'll have to check on the shafts, see what they're rated at.
I kinda think - just because someone somewhere has broken a part, that doesn't mean it needs to be replaced.
I also think that under 400HP the stock shafts should be fine.

I think what I will do, is once I get a new job save up and drop my trans have it rebuilt, have a hardened shaft installed, jmod and a 3200 stall which should be enough. But if I am going to do that, I want to already have my blower and ready for install so that I can get the stall setup for a blower instead of getting a stall (like justin was telling me) then end up getting a blower and the stall isn't made for a blower and breaking shit haha.

 

[justinschmidt1]

for clarification he said the ford clutches work great, and he's seen no improvement with aftermarket clutches.
if they're burned they will be black, if they're in good shape they will still look brown.

I'll have to check on the shafts, see what they're rated at.
I kinda think - just because someone somewhere has broken a part, that doesn't mean it needs to be replaced.
I also think that under 400HP the stock shafts should be fine.

I agree, changing the fluid every 25k and a good cooler will keep it healthy no matter how you drive.

 

[Brian95SVT]

New update (while talking to justin)

I am going to save up, get the transmission rebuilt and put the hardened shaft in and a jmod. I'll keep my stock stall for now then once I get my blower, I will buy a stall that is meant for a blower. Oh yeah.

 

[DropTopPony]

Check out the new MMFF mag, goes over a 4R70W rebuild.... shows clutches etc. That may help you out. Also have you read up over on www.tccoa.com?http:// go into the tech articles and read trans 101 and everything else. Most of that stuff was written by Jerry W.
Those guys all have autos so its a good place for auto info!

 

[Willis_98GT]

New update (while talking to justin)

I am going to save up, get the transmission rebuilt and put the hardened shaft in and a jmod. I'll keep my stock stall for now then once I get my blower, I will buy a stall that is meant for a blower. Oh yeah.

ccasion14:

 

[Dalamar]

Thanks for that Bob, that was a very good read.

I like the description of static and dynamic friction coeficient, and I didn't know that the fluid additives effect the dynamic friction, or how much torque the clutchs can hold. This also explains how heat causes failure by causing the additives to break down, then the clutchs start slipping....
and the Kevlar band being bad becuse it cant hold as much dynamic friction.
Good stuff!



And Brian, i missed the part about you wanting to add a blower later, good idea waiting to have the staul built for your "final" setup. I agree they are expensive!

 

[Brian95SVT]

Thanks for that Bob, that was a very good read.

I like the description of static and dynamic friction coeficient, and I didn't know that the fluid additives effect the dynamic friction, or how much torque the clutchs can hold. This also explains how heat causes failure by causing the additives to break down, then the clutchs start slipping....
and the Kevlar band being bad becuse it cant hold as much dynamic friction.
Good stuff!



And Brian, i missed the part about you wanting to add a blower later, good idea waiting to have the staul built for your "final" setup. I agree they are expensive!

Yeah, they are.

I figure getting my transmission rebuilt with the hardened shaft and the jmod will be enough for now and the gears will do well with that. Then when it comes time for the blower, the stall will take it all to the next step like i want.

Thanks everyone for stepping in with all the great feedback and information. I will definitely look into those links tomorrow when I get back from the shop Bob.

I'm calling it a night.

Thanks again,

Brian