Your thoughts on my thoughts.

[dutch]

Here?s the deal, I don?t have any way of getting a proper dyno tune for this car so I?m pretty limited when it comes to mods. Also, this car is my daily driver, so drivability and reliability are most important. Lastly, I have emissions.

My goals are a fun reliable streetcar, nothing too radical right now.

Emissions and lack of tuning already rule out f/I and cam.

For heads, I was thinking edelbrock performers, since they seem to give good power and are still 50state legal and CARB legal. Any other options? Are AFR165?s and trickflow heads also emissions legal?

For the intake I?m looking at a 94-95 cobra/svo intake because this is as close to the stock setup as possible and will be the least prone to fab/egr/vacuum/clearance issues.

For throttle body, I?m pretty set on an FRPP 65mm for the same reasons as the intake. Close to stock, less things to go wrong in terms of throttlecable/cruise/idle problems.

Headers, I?m looking at some BBK or FRPP unequal shorties for ease of install and plugchange, and emissions reasons.

I?m still in doubt as to wether or not I need a bigger MAF with corresponding 24#?s. If I do need them for this set-up, what would be the best brand/route to go with to prevent drivability/idle problems? Could I get away with an AFPR?

Obviously, while I?m there I will be changing the t-stat, waterpump.. Any other things I need to order and change while I?m there?

Give me your thoughts and advice on the setup. Thanks!

 

[Javi]

165's
70MM TB atleast
BBK
you wil need a maf to work with the 24 lbs, but if you are gonna stay NA, the 19 lbs will go longways.

change the timing chain too.

are you doing the HCI yourself? if so
read up homie

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarticles/headcamintakeswap.pdf

 

[NXcoupe]

I prefer twisted wedge for my first choice, 2.02 intake valve, 60cc combustion chamber and a very nice rectangular port cross section so most intakes line up and mate up nicely. The edelbrock's are a good choice too. Use the 1.94 intake valve and I would go with stud mount rockers on them, they are more easily adjustable and give a better geometry than the bolt downs do.
As for intake, go with the stock cobra, can't go wrong there. I used one and with P heads and a stock cam, made 250 at the wheels through a stock throttle body and mass air. Not too shabby. I like your choices on the headers, and for your throttle body. AS for your mass air, I would think ProM 80 with an andersn power pipe would be the most reliable as far as idle quality and very good chance the a/f will be spot on when you connect everything up. I would recommend a wide band from one of the many manufacturers out there. That will allow you to make minor changes in fuel pressure to affect your wot and part throttle a/f ratio. Can't change it much, but you can fine tune it that way. I like your plan for your build. But why the worries for american emmisions? Is the Netherlands that strict?

 

[dutch]

165's
70MM TB atleast
BBK
you wil need a maf to work with the 24 lbs, but if you are gonna stay NA, the 19 lbs will go longways.

change the timing chain too.

are you doing the HCI yourself? if so
read up homie

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarticles/headcamintakeswap.pdf

already ordered the 65mm FRPP tb, got a good deal.
AFR165's much better then the performers? also 50state legal?
So you reckon the stock fuelsystem will keep up?

I was kinda hoping not to have to mess with the timingchain since I don't have to swap cams anyway.. :dontknow:

And I've been reading up, gonna do the work myself. Most important for me is to have everything I need to the last bolt/gasket because I don't want to have to order something while I'm working on the car and have it sit 2 weeks. But that's future talk, I'm still piecing together a good combo and slowly getting parts.

I was also considering a wideband just to be safe.. And yes, emissions are similar to US rules. 50state legal parts are a must.

 

[Javi]

your fuel system should be fine, i personally like AFR, but Trick flow heads are goo too ^

you dont have to change the timing chain.

how many miles are on the mota?

 

[dutch]

trickflow/165 all 50state legal?

motor has 90k on it.

 

[Javi]

yes.

 

[dutch]

good, I know what to look for then!

AFPR good idea if I stay with stock injectors?
Was thinking about a bigger fuelpump anyway, get the feeling mine is on it's last legs..

 

[Javi]

hmm, with 90K miles i wouldnt think so.
my car at 146K still has the stock pump,but yes
you should be fine with 19# injectors

 

[LAFENATU]

AFR165's much better then the performers? also 50state legal?

AFR 165's are definitley better and are 50 State Legal. For a small block 302/306, I think they are better than a wedge head but that is my opinion.

Your going to want to order the #1472 head for use with Pedestal Rockers unless you plan on swapping the rockers.

Get the Fel-Pro 9333PT-1 head gaskets.

Your going to want Autolite Copper 3924 spark plugs.

65mm TB will work good.

Your stock injectors will be more than sufficient, as well as the stock MAF meter

BBK headers are the best header for the $, hands down. Like you stated before, get un-equal headers.

 

[dutch]

thanks folks

 

[94kingcbra]

you could use a wideband and datalog MAF voltage, RPM, and AFR with your choice of a datalogger. Then tune with SCT's PRP or go with a standalone. You won't get any dyno numbers, but at least you will be able to get the car running good. Good Luck! Justin

 

[NXcoupe]

Wait a minute. All you guys beating the AFR drum, do you realize they no longer make a 58cc head? They only make a 71 cc combustion chamber, which lowers a stang's compression down to nearly 8.7 to 1. That will kill power no matter how good the heads are. AFR also has a poorly designed cross section shape of an oval for their intake port that doesn't line up well with just about any intake out there. His Cobra stocker might line up fairly well, but that's not the point. Both of the other heads he mentioned are a much better choice than the AFR simply because of the enormous combustion chamber those idiots decided to spec on a sbf head. Guess they should have stuck with making sbc heads. I am an AFR dealer and used to sell a lot of their product, but we still got more hp on the dyno with other heads than AFR's. Not much, but when you consider the fact that TFS and Edelbrocks are all 61 cc's + compared to AFR's 58 at the time, that should have made them superior to the TFS and Edelbrocks. Now that they have gone to a 70+ cc chamber, they will not perform as well. A TFS head has a shorter runner and still is close to the AFR 185 in cc's, and is superior to the 165. Same with the Edelbrock. Sorry, just want to interject some new facts into the equation. AFR's were the hot topic on Corral a few years ago, and everyone had to have a set. Now, they will just lower compression for a roots blower I guess. I am in no way trying to disrespect anyone in this thread, I just don't want this guy buying something that will hinder performance, especially with all he will have to go through if they don't work well for him.

 

[Paul]

All you guys beating the AFR drum, do you realize they no longer make a 58cc head? They only make a 71 cc combustion chamber

They do?

Here's the 165s in 60 cc: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFR-1472/

Here's the 185s in 58 cc: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFR-1422/

Here's the 205s in 58 cc: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFR-1450/

Are these not made anymore? Summit says they'll ship today. Their website says they have 58 cc heads too.

Paul.

 

[sbr420a]

wondering as well

 

[dutch]

Thanks for the input NXcoupe. They are more expensive then the edelbrocks too.

 

[NXcoupe]

I got their latest catalog and they do not offer the 58cc anymore. They may have changed that in the past month or so, but as of August they no longer sold the 58cc. I told them I would be very hard pressed to ever be able to sell their heads with that stupid size. Summit may have some leftovers, or they may just not have updated their site. I cannot comment on the 205's only the 185's and 165's.

 

[NXcoupe]

I will have someone from my place call them tomorrow and find out for sure. It really angered me that they would take something so expensive and hard to sell in the first place and then screw it up even more. I do like their smaller valvestem valves, but they did that to make the ford heads use similar hardware to their other heads they produce. It didn't help flow much, but I am sure it helped out some.
Their main drawback is the design of their cross section. I ported a guys' 185's he had for him, and matched it up to his TFS R intake, we picked up 40 hp. All we did was match the ports and swap to an R intake. That's a lot of power and made me start looking closer at the heads and how they mate with intakes on the market. I'm sorry I really get into this stuff and get angry when multimillion dollar companies overlook something so blatenly obvious as their port mismatch. If they even made an EFI intake with that rounded port, it would be a lot easier to swallow. If I'm wrong I do apologize, but one way or the other, there will be an answer tomorrow.

 

[Paul]

If they don't sell 58 cc anymore (which I seriously doubt) then why would they show it that way on their website? :dontknow:


Also, what "oval port" intake are you talking about? I've had AFRs and they didn't have an oval port - and matched up quite well with my intake.

This doesn't look oval shaped to me.

 

[Yellow94gt]

19's will not keep up with heads. The last dyno pull I saw was 276 hp withOUT heads... just cam and intake, and the 19's were maxed out in his car. Also... why no cam? Aren't the Ford Racing cams 50 state legal? And I have had a cam in my car for over a year with no reason to have it tuned. Makes good power (although I'm sure it would make more with a tune) but the car pulls strong with no reliability issues.