After dyno questions.

[mtang98 gt]

I just ran my car on a dyno today and only got 180rwhp and 250torqe after doing a PI cam and PI intake manifold swap. I think my timing may be off and i know for a fact now that my ignition is screwed up cause the dyno couldn't even read the RPMS off the wires. I have MSD ignition coil packs and ford racing 9mm wires. The guy that tunes the cars says that MSD is crap for our year mustangs and has seen this problem before. He says to switch back to motorcraft. What is the stock compression for a 98 gt? I'm gonna run a compression test to see if my timing is off. Any help would be awesome thanks.

Also he says that my automatic trans feels like its holding the car back like its draging? What could cause that?

 

[mtang98 gt]

anyone have any idea why im only makin 180?

 

[duff daddy]

Timing could be off, motor could be hurt, he could have had the wrong correction factor in for the dyno, he doesnt know how to tune cars. Or just understand that dyno numbers mean very very little unless your building a dyno queen to put up peak power numbers. The dyno is more of a tool inwhich you use to make the vehicle more efficent. IT doesnt mean how fast you will be it doesnt mean how quick the car will move. It mainly shows how effective your vehicle is at moving air.

 

[mtang98 gt]

im gonna follow what he says about the msd igintion coil packs and go back to motorcraft. have you ever heard bad things about msd coil packs on our cars? all ive heard is when they get hot they fail.

 

[MustangChris]

i made 194 RWHP with FULL bolt ons.
intake, plugs, wires, coil packs, headers, x pipe, cat back, clutch, driveshaft, pullies, gears, everything but a throttle body and injectors.. .. .... 194.. . .. yea...

so, with an automatic transmission, you sound in the right spot.

as for your wires, the FRPP wires might have too much insulation for their computer to get a read through (which is technically a good thing) *BUT* any GOOD dyno shop should have the know-how to pull back the wiring harness and get the read from there.

regarding the coil packs, yes, MSD packs suck on the 1996-1998 coil packs. they crack quite often.
OEM motorcraft ones are fine for quite a bit of power. you should be fine going to the junk yard and snagging a pair off a crown vic, lincoln, or 5.4L for $10.00. ....

*IF* you want aftermarket coil packs (eventhough at your power level they will be for bragging rights, not performance) you could look into Screamin' Deamon coil packs. they are a good quality product. I had a pair that had a broken connection point (where the wiring harness plugs in) and they STILL worked flawlessly...

 

[red95r]

Damn 180 after the swap!? What was it before?

 

[duff daddy]

OE coil packs are the best.

 

[mtang98 gt]

well i should really post a pic of dyno sheet to let you guys see. The torque line on the graph is like a roller coaster not smooth like the horse power reading. Also i have basicly full bolt ons CAI, 70mm throttle body, Stack racing intake plenum, bbk ceramic coated shorty headers, O/R xpipe, glass packs, SCT tune chip.

 

[MadStang]

well i should really post a pic of dyno sheet to let you guys see. The torque line on the graph is like a roller coaster not smooth like the horse power reading. Also i have basicly full bolt ons CAI, 70mm throttle body, Stack racing intake plenum, bbk ceramic coated shorty headers, O/R xpipe, glass packs, SCT tune chip.

did you degree the PI cams when you put them in? that's power loss if you didn't because oem cams are +/- 4 degrees off. is the SCT tune a dyno tune? that's lost power as well if not. I know that Stack Racing is a cheap ass Chinese company so you might be losing power off that plenum as well. There's a lot of variables. Is this a 91 tune? And yeah you're losing a LOT of power through that automatic. My buddy's 99 GT with full-bolt ons made 230rwhp through an automatic. My 5-speed made 223rwhp bonestock...

 

[MustangChris]

OE coil packs are the best.

why? (honestly curious)

well i should really post a pic of dyno sheet to let you guys see. The torque line on the graph is like a roller coaster not smooth like the horse power reading. Also i have basicly full bolt ons CAI, 70mm throttle body, Stack racing intake plenum, bbk ceramic coated shorty headers, O/R xpipe, glass packs, SCT tune chip.

please do. that will also (should) show us your A/F which could help diagnose some problems...

 

[mtang98 gt]

no i didnt degree the cams and the chip is just a can 93 octane tune.

 

[duff daddy]

OE coil packs are the best.

why? (honestly curious)

Curiosity killed the cat... ah All of the NMRA guys I know (mod muscle and even factory stock ) run all OE Ignition parts. I have seen ALOT of people have issues with ignition stuff thats just kind of odd ball from the a/m stuff. Even in the chrysler stuff (chargers challengers and hell even caravans) are very temperamental to the Ignition stuff, cam crank sensors and especially the coil packs we see that come in are junk. They arent made to the oe quality and normally give odd drivability stuff.


There is no set data saying its a 100% bad idea, just not something wise.

 

[MustangChris]

ic. i knew the oem ignition equipment on the 1996-98 mustangs were high quality and reliable.... didnt realize they worked up into the high performance aspect of things.

my tuner specifically told me to stick with OEM ingnition on my cobra build, so i did. saved me $400.00....

 

[mtang98 gt]

Here yeah go the dyno guy says that looks like an ignition problem what do you guys think?
Top is horsepower bottom is torque

 

[MustangChris]

can we get a shot of the bottom of the sheet as well?

 

[Rice_slayer]

I'm not a 2v genius like duffy, but wouldn't improperly installed cams/timing components cause a roller coaster like that? My HP/TQ numbers on my HCI 302 where VERY smooth thankfully. Definatly something wrong here...

 

[duff daddy]

Id idnt see the dyno sheet till now but yea there is an issue. Wheather its incorrect cam installation I dont think so but there is something else going on. I honestly dont know.

 

[MadStang]

yeah there's a definite issue there. Get the bottom of the graph so we can see the A/F table.

 

[mtang98 gt]

Air to fuel is pretty good. Im gonna run a compression test sometime soon to see if i can find a problem.

 

[MadStang]

well there's your problem sir your A/F is wack! It's supposed to be a virtual flat line sir and it has spikes. And from the looks of it when it does spike, it spikes rich. That leads me to believe your ignition is toast and/or your tune is junk.

For reference I had a similar issue when I got dyno'd, the COP's were beginning to fail and between 5000-6000 it started spiking and you could see the A/F dip into rich territory.