brake upgrades and ABS

[Jrgunn5150]

I'm gonna make someone butt hurt here I'm sure, but I have to go with Handz on the subject, mostly.

OEM ABS systems, just like traction control and yaw control, are a crutch to keep people out of trouble, not make them Mario Andretti. There's no perfromance increase from using them, only safety. This is why we don't go to the track and turn the traction control ON, we switch it off. At least this is the case currently

But, on the other hand. With a blank piece of paper and unlimited funds, you could make those systems in a racecar make any little Civic Si driving tool look like a hero. The reason they don't use them is because in most racing organizations they are not legal. I recall a few years back, there was a very sophisticated system in an F1 or Indy car, that could remember the fastest line, then duplicate it around the track. It took minimal driver input. Basically, we could all be Mario Andretti if we had his line. Immediately all traction aids were banned, lol.

 

[19mustang95]

I've run drilled/slotted rotors for over 6 years. it's fine with the abs.


I wish my car didn't have it, it just shakes the damn car when I want to brake hard.
I mean, regular car with regular brakes on a silppery road, the abs is good.

but an upgaded car with bigger brakes, better tires, and an 11 year old abs, I'd like to take mine off.
I don't drive it in the snow.

There is someone on the Mach1Registry.com that designed an ABS delete for the 94-97 Mustang. his username is Phil. He made them for the 99-04 Mustang and my roomate put one in his Mach 1, and i liked it so much that i sent him my ABS unit so that he could design and make one for our cars. The best part is that is it made out of a small peice of aluminum so you save weight compared to the old chukny ABS unit.

 

[Dalamar]

really!! that's good to know.

Very interested in the result, let me know whould you?

 

[voidfinger]

I've run drilled/slotted rotors for over 6 years. it's fine with the abs.


I wish my car didn't have it, it just shakes the damn car when I want to brake hard.
I mean, regular car with regular brakes on a silppery road, the abs is good.

but an upgaded car with bigger brakes, better tires, and an 11 year old abs, I'd like to take mine off.
I don't drive it in the snow.

There is someone on the Mach1Registry.com that designed an ABS delete for the 94-97 Mustang. his username is Phil. He made them for the 99-04 Mustang and my roomate put one in his Mach 1, and i liked it so much that i sent him my ABS unit so that he could design and make one for our cars. The best part is that is it made out of a small peice of aluminum so you save weight compared to the old chukny ABS unit.

where is he from... sounds like one of the members from my car club here in NC. He did that too... and he is doing the mach1 swap on his cobra

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Sounds like a Birdman project to me, but I DON'T KNOW. bIRDMAN IS FROM fla THOUGH.

 

[SRT Handz]

when you dont have ABS you develop a very good feeling for braking. You can feel the exact point at where the brakes lock up and use it to your advantage. The feeling of No ABS is intense. Its like you have complete control of your brakes. When you press the brakes hard they lock up. Kinda like when you floor the throttle you get wheel spin. This is why a Good driver than knows how to drive without ABS can stop WAY Faster than a car with ABS. It is because of that acute sense of how much to brake and where the brakes lock up.

Because of Formula-1, Ferrari and other companies such as Renault have developed AMAZING Traction control and ABS systems that work amazing and require no peddle finesse.

Withe the Current F1 ABS and T?C systems you go into a Turn at Full throttle, then go HARD on the Brakes (Individual Wheel ABS takes car off all the brakes), the Floor the Throttle going into the Turn and T/C takes care of everything.... its intense

 

[Conechaser]

ABS does make a HUGE difference when braking on ice/snow..... But then again rally drivers do amazing things on Snow with no ABS :dunno:

ABS for rain and ice... fine. For snow or gravel... abs sucks. It has been proven that stopping straight in the loose stuff with abs adds distance. Locking up the wheels will create a snow or gravel wedge in front of the tire that will slow you in less distance. THAT is one of the reasons rally cars do not have ABS. Of course... you still don't have directional control with the tires locked up. That is what ABS is for... letting you steer while stopping.

Just remember that ABS will still not suspend the rules of physics.

 

[SRT Handz]

Conechaser, ABS isnt even needed for braking while steering because if your a good driver you should be following one of the most important rules in driving... Do all your braking in a straight line. Your never supposed to brake in a turn

 

[Conechaser]

Conechaser, ABS isnt even needed for braking while steering because if your a good driver you should be following one of the most important rules in driving... Do all your braking in a straight line. Your never supposed to brake in a turn

I know that. You know that. Unfortunately, 99 percent of the driving public don't know that.

Actually, you can brake in a turn... it's called trail braking. Works well for helping the car to rotate in a corner. Doesn't work very well if you have ABS in a FWD car though.

 

[xsoutherngun89x]

Handz wanted a drivers input, and i used to do shifter and oval karting. ABS does help save your ass in wet and snow. if you ask why it was desinged you will get 2 different answers, one: to keep wheels fome locking up; two: to be able to steer while hard on the brakes in bad road conditions.

yes handz is right, on a dry track and a decent driver(throwing this term loosely, lol) you will be able to do much better without the ABS. remember we are in ford mustangs, not BMW or ferraris. There systems are desinged to work at full performance, our systems are desinged to keep 16 year old kids and 80 year old grandmas out of a snowbank of ditch. With wide tires, big brakes, and a skilled driver a car can perform much greater without ABS than one with it. (dry condition of course, wider tires make wet conditions even worse)

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Ditches FTMFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SRT Handz]

I know that. You know that. Unfortunately, 99 percent of the driving public don't know that.

Actually, you can brake in a turn... it's called trail braking. Works well for helping the car to rotate in a corner. Doesn't work very well if you have ABS in a FWD car though.

Many Instructors will say "DO NOT TAILBRAKE" or "NO BRAKING IN THE TURN". I agree with the 100% Braking in the turn throws the car completely out of balance. If you are in a RWD car and having problems with understeer in a Turn, you should be using the Throttle to Counter the Understeer. Braking in understeer will just make the Understeer worse.

Now, with a FWD car, there is a technique called "Left Foot Braking" which is VERY difficult to master but a FWD specialist can use left foot braking in a corner to Created more grip in the turn.... its way to fight the understeer.

 

[voidfinger]

zoom that went right over my head

 

[Dalamar]

If you are in a RWD car and having problems with understeer in a Turn, you should be using the Throttle to Counter the Understeer. Braking in understeer will just make the Understeer worse.

that's what my car does now. It's got that fat ass eibach bar on the front, better for springs and 4 link rear.
I need to swap out my front bar and want to add the adjustable rear for that just right feel!

 

[voidfinger]

If you are in a RWD car and having problems with understeer in a Turn, you should be using the Throttle to Counter the Understeer. Braking in understeer will just make the Understeer worse.

that's what my car does now. It's got that fat ass eibach bar on the front, better for springs and 4 link rear.
I need to swap out my front bar and want to add the adjustable rear for that just right feel!

So what should you go with then with coil overs?

 

[SRT Handz]

If you are in a RWD car and having problems with understeer in a Turn, you should be using the Throttle to Counter the Understeer. Braking in understeer will just make the Understeer worse.

that's what my car does now. It's got that fat ass eibach bar on the front, better for springs and 4 link rear.
I need to swap out my front bar and want to add the adjustable rear for that just right feel!

its the same way may car feels also.... but i dont get understeer that often because i know how to set the car up while going into the turn so that doesnt occur

 

[xsoutherngun89x]

handz you should get you a brake bias adjuster. that can totally change the way the brakes perform. especially if you dial in a little more to the rear. will greatly reduce understeer

 

[SRT Handz]

handz you should get you a brake bias adjuster. that can totally change the way the brakes perform. especially if you dial in a little more to the rear. will greatly reduce understeer

already have it..... next month i am re-locating from under the car to inside :thumb:

 

[Dalamar]

I want one of those brake thingies!
anyone want to post up a link?


VF, it doesn't have anything to do with the coil overs. it's the grip of the front and rear suspension, the rear with the TA has ton's more traction and articulates well. the front is stiff, so the rear actually outgrips the front as my car sit's now.
So I need to remove the fat front bar, and stiffen up the rear swaybar so it's a little stiffer than the front (so to speak)

 

[voidfinger]

O so your getting rid of the eibach front bar then? ... do you have the rear eibach bar too....? you already know what i'm gonna ask so just pm me some details lol.