Crashed it

Saint · Dec 9, 2013

Orange 94 said:
Weight displacement.

If you have a wider tire your are spreading your weight over a larger area. You have less weight per area. Friction is the normal force (weight) times the friction coeffient (ice has a low friction coefient). So you want a skinnier tire to have more weight per area and more traction. That's why winter tires are skinny. Winter tires have different tread to make it have more traction with ice/snow too. They type of tire and how much tread makes the biggest difference.

Damn you deeplist, beat me to it!

Guess my tires just sucked. Looking at them closer they are less than 50% wear

FivepointSlow · Dec 9, 2013

So assuming a smart car weights the same as my GT. A smart car would have more traction?

So my 16" stock rims with winter tires will have more grip than my 18"x8" if they had winter tires?
Makes sense.. Thanks. Lol

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Orange 94 · Dec 9, 2013

Yes, have more tire would have helped. Have the right type of tire would have helped more...

This is the first year I've driven with winter tires. In use to drive my 4x4 with old all seasons and it did okay, never got stuck but wouldn't stop but you get use to it.
Now that I got the Mazda and will be driving on highway more often I decided to get winter tires. Makes a huge difference! It makes me feel dumb because I still drive like I'm driving my truck

FivepointSlow · Dec 9, 2013

Saint said:
Guess my tires just sucked. Looking at them closer they are less than 50% wear

Regardless of the condition of the tire, width, or type of tire, if your car wants to slide it's going to slide. Nothing can stop you from losing traction on a big enough patch of ice. Just have to slow down and keep the wheel straight and hope for the best.

I beleive tryig to counter steer while in a slide just makes everything worse. Although I've only driven twice while I was snowing and it wasn't icy out so so far, thankfully, I haven't had to experience a spin out to test that piece of knowledge. I do want to take my dads 2007 out to an empty parking lot today and whip it around to get a feel for the car when you lose control. Best to practice and slide on purpose in a parking lot than to slide on the road and my know what to do.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Saint · Dec 9, 2013

FivepointSlow said:
Regardless of the condition of the tire, width, or type of tire, if your car wants to slide it's going to slide. Nothing can stop you from losing traction on a big enough patch of ice. Just have to slow down and keep the wheel straight and hope for the best.

I beleive tryig to counter steer while in a slide just makes everything worse. Although I've only driven twice while I was snowing and it wasn't icy out so so far, thankfully, I haven't had to experience a spin out to test that piece of knowledge. I do want to take my dads 2007 out to an empty parking lot today and whip it around to get a feel for the car when you lose control. Best to practice and slide on purpose in a parking lot than to slide on the road and my know what to do.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

True. I had to counter steer in this case. It was that go across the median into head on traffic. I got it back to the right alright...right into the guard rail.

FivepointSlow · Dec 9, 2013

Better the guard rail than ruining someone else's day and possibly ending their life... Luckily the guard rail did it's job and stopped you... A few accidents around me had people going over or through the guard rails because they where poorly placed built. One crash the person was blatantly speeding and launched over it but the others the guard rail failed.

Sent via my swagPhone 5.0 using Tapatalk

DeepList · Dec 9, 2013

FivepointSlow said:
Regardless of the condition of the tire, width, or type of tire, if your car wants to slide it's going to slide. Nothing can stop you from losing traction on a big enough patch of ice.

Not necessarily. The right tire can actually make a huge difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWwK7kx7V44

Skip to 3:10 to show the comparison for winter, all season, and summer tires while making a turn on solid ice.

Orange 94 · Dec 9, 2013

FivepointSlow said:
So assuming a smart car weights the same as my GT. A smart car would have more traction?

So my 16" stock rims with winter tires will have more grip than my 18"x8" if they had winter tires?
Makes sense.. Thanks. Lol

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Car vs car is totally different. They'll have a totally different weight distribution and it depends on how it operates (rwd vs fwd awd).

Take my Mazda(fwd) vs my mustang (rwd), the Mazda has the engine in the front and is driven by the front wheels. Since the engine weighs the most, the majority of the weight is on the front wheels, the wheels that drive and steer the car. The mustang on the other hand has the engine in the front and is driven by the rear. The rear of the mustang has very little weight, so not much weight is on the wheels driving the car.
So if i put the same tires on the mazda and the mustang, the Mazda would do much better.

But having weight on the driving wheels does not always make it better.... If you have a rear engine rwd car, it may be difficult to lose traction, but once it does lose traction there's no saving it because you don't have much steering ability. The rear of the car will slide out and momentum will carry the rear.

Yes, put winter tires on the smaller wheels. Just winter tires in general will help.

Orange 94 · Dec 9, 2013

If you start sliding you must steer in the direction you want to go. That's like drivers ed 101.

If you're in a rwd you back off the gas, in a fwd you're suppose to increase gas.

FivepointSlow · Dec 9, 2013

DeepList said:
Not necessarily. The right tire can actually make a huge difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWwK7kx7V44

Skip to 3:10 to show the comparison for winter, all season, and summer tires while making a turn on solid ice.

Yea I know they do make a difference but once the winter tires break lose you're just as much ****ed with winter tires as you are with summer tires...

Sent via my swagPhone 5.0 using Tapatalk

ttocs · Dec 9, 2013

same idea as snow skis the longer they are the faster you go.

Shifty Powers · Dec 9, 2013

Orange 94 said:
Noooooooooo!

Wait, you were going to put wider tires on for more traction on ice? No... You but narrower tires on for traction on ice. Fat ones will be worse.

^ this..

But glad you are ok man! This can be repaired and not for a huge amount of money if you can have the car sit and do a lot of the work yourself.. They are fairly easy to take apart.. If the brame needs rebending a bit in the engine bay that is a diff story

Saint · Dec 9, 2013

Shifty Powers said:
^ this..

But glad you are ok man! This can be repaired and not for a huge amount of money if you can have the car sit and do a lot of the work yourself.. They are fairly easy to take apart.. If the brame needs rebending a bit in the engine bay that is a diff story

Thanks man! I'm stripping it now to get it ready for the body shop.

ttocs · Dec 9, 2013

I am about as much of an amature too body work as anyone else is but have not found anything too hard on mine. I could have had it on the road running long ago if I wasn't smoothing the bay and tucking the wires. Best advice I can give you is too take a lot of pics to help remember what goes where, ect. Were you insured fully?

Saint · Dec 9, 2013

ttocs said:
I am about as much of an amature too body work as anyone else is but have not found anything too hard on mine. I could have had it on the road running long ago if I wasn't smoothing the bay and tucking the wires. Best advice I can give you is too take a lot of pics to help remember what goes where, ect. Were you insured fully?

Just liability

Tommy92 · Dec 9, 2013

Glad you are okay Saint

DeepList · Dec 9, 2013

Saint said:
Just liability

For something like this you'd be better off in the long run not reporting it to your insurance agency, even if you did have full coverage.

Mack · Dec 9, 2013

Glad you're okay!

Tommy92 · Dec 9, 2013

Orange 94 said:
Weight displacement.

If you have a wider tire your are spreading your weight over a larger area. You have less weight per area. Friction is the normal force (weight) times the friction coeffient (ice has a low friction coefient). So you want a skinnier tire to have more weight per area and more traction. That's why winter tires are skinny. Winter tires have different tread to make it have more traction with ice/snow too. They type of tire and how much tread makes the biggest difference.

Damn you deeplist, beat me to it!

Theoretically speaking, area doesn't affect friction force. P=F/A so F=PA. Friction Force = (PA)x coef.fric. As you can see area will cancel out. The only problem is in snow, the wider the tire with more grooves, it makes it easier for snow to stick on to the tire and reduce the coefficient of friction. Skinny tires are better at displacing the snow away to the sides as it rolls.