Engine Options

mich_666 · Mar 31, 2008

So i have myself a low k 302. striped to the block, putting it through the hot tank and then checkin for fractures....

Once thats done, im left with a couple of options....
347, 331, 306....? with boost or nitrous...?

ive heard lots of things about splitting stock blocks with strokers sooo im in need of some advice/opnions.
im on a budget, so aftermarket block is gonna be out of the question for me.

want this to be a street/weekend track motor.
just need help picking out a rotating assembly

thanks in advance.

Jonesy347 · Apr 1, 2008

Main girdle is a must for any serious horsepower on stock block, especially with a stroker kit being considered. I went 347 with 5.315 rod, keeps from having the piston pin going through the piston oil ring landing, in order to keep oil consumption and compression under control. The torque and horsepower gain with 347 kit is outstanding and recommended. All forged kits are coming down and can get from Mustang Depot on Ebay for around $1000. Plus, they can hook you up with additional needs like the main girdle, dampner, flywheel, and balancing. If your on a budget like I am, being a family man, then I would recommend these guys.

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 1, 2008

1-A girdle isn't going to do anything for you on a stock block other than hold the motor together in a neat little pile when it splits in a high HP app.

2-Any shop that tries to sell you the old style 347 where the pin intersects the ring landing should never get your business for ANYTHING.

3-Torque and horsepower gains are only as good as the combo. Some guys with 347s make less than 350 to the wheels because they've got a badly chosen combo. A properly selected combo thats well put together and tuned should see upwards of 450whp or more all motor.

4-Getting fully forged internals on a stock block is a waste of money IMO. You really just need forged pistons and even then lots of ppl are running hypers with great results. There is alot of debate on this though and with forged rods and pistons being pretty inexpensive now its good cheap insurance if you're buying a stroker kit. A cast crank is MORE than enough for a stock block.

5-DO NOT BUY AN EBAY STROKER KIT!!!! Sites like TMD etc... sell cheaply made chinese copies!! Terrible advice to buy your rotating assy. on ebay... Hit up www.fordstrokers.com or www.adperformance.com and talk to the ppl there for sound advice on your combo.

6-I understand being on a budget, I'm a poor college student. However you don't want to be doing this twice. For a lower powered 302/306 that's mostly a street car you can get away with using the lower end stuff but when you get into big power strokers using cheap ebay parts is just asking for it.

Mr. OAM · Apr 1, 2008

It sounds like you bascially want a fun car, quick and responsive but because of budget not a world beater. You will be fine with the stock block.

This next paragraph is not aimed at you, it is aimed at everyone that says "306"...

306.....it's a 302 with the usual .030" rebuild overbore in order to square up the cylinders to the crank and to make the cylinders concentric. It's a 302 bored over. 4 cubic inches (1/2 cubic inch per cylinder) is a 1.3% increase in displacement for the entire engine and is not going to be a determining factor in producing power. When the block gets decked to square the head surfaces up to the crank as well you can lose about 1/4 cubic inch per cylinder so now you are down to a 304. To mention these numbers is pointless. Back in the day it was always just said that the block was "30 over." We need to return to that. My 440 Mopar that was bored .030" over was not referred to as a 446, just "bored over".

I would go with the stroker kits. No replacement for displacement.

What kind of manners do you want the engine to have? If you go for higher HP numbers your idle will suffer. For the street, torque is king. It's what snaps your neck when you punch it. You'll need to decide if you want a torquey engine or a more serious HP engine.

Steve

Stangbangin · Apr 1, 2008

306 is a fords guy way of saying its been rebuilt or built. not saying it like its some awesome stroker combo. I'll say my 306 just so its known that it beens gone threw.

Stangbangin · Apr 1, 2008

ScottyDsntKnow said:
1-A girdle isn't going to do anything for you on a stock block other than hold the motor together in a neat little pile when it splits in a high HP app.

2-Any shop that tries to sell you the old style 347 where the pin intersects the ring landing should never get your business for ANYTHING.

3-Torque and horsepower gains are only as good as the combo. Some guys with 347s make less than 350 to the wheels because they've got a badly chosen combo. A properly selected combo thats well put together and tuned should see upwards of 450whp or more all motor.

4-Getting fully forged internals on a stock block is a waste of money IMO. You really just need forged pistons and even then lots of ppl are running hypers with great results. There is alot of debate on this though and with forged rods and pistons being pretty inexpensive now its good cheap insurance if you're buying a stroker kit. A cast crank is MORE than enough for a stock block.

5-DO NOT BUY AN EBAY STROKER KIT!!!! Sites like TMD etc... sell cheaply made chinese copies!! Terrible advice to buy your rotating assy. on ebay... Hit up www.fordstrokers.com or www.adperformance.com and talk to the ppl there for sound advice on your combo.

6-I understand being on a budget, I'm a poor college student. However you don't want to be doing this twice. For a lower powered 302/306 that's mostly a street car you can get away with using the lower end stuff but when you get into big power strokers using cheap ebay parts is just asking for it.

plus 1 on everything. but 450 hp on a 347 is gonna be a stretch. I've seen it done just not often and it will take one hell of a combo. AFR, Holley systemax custom cam plus aggressive tune.

Paul · Apr 1, 2008

I've seen exactly TWO 302-based strokers exceed 400 dyno-verified rwhp n/a. Lots of folks think it's easy to make that kind of power. It isn't.

Otherwise, good advice in this thread.

Paul.

Magic · Apr 1, 2008

mich_666 said:
So i have myself a low k 302. striped to the block, putting it through the hot tank and then checkin for fractures....

Once thats done, im left with a couple of options....
347, 331, 306....? with boost or nitrous...?

ive heard lots of things about splitting stock blocks with strokers sooo im in need of some advice/opnions.
im on a budget, so aftermarket block is gonna be out of the question for me.

want this to be a street/weekend track motor.
just need help picking out a rotating assembly

thanks in advance.

What year is this 302 motor? And whats it out of? is it the original from your car or a spare motor?
If its a 86-92 Mustang vintage then you already have forged pistons.

IMO a good basic rebuild and power upgrade would be the following: (it will be easier on the wallet, and its a type of combo many people run) just rebuild it using the stock crank, rods (with ARP rold bolts), pistons, with good bearings and rings (lots of money saved, compared to buying a stroker kit)...
Then for Heads/Cam/Intake, an "easy" way out package would be something like Trick Flow package. Go with the Track Heat intake.

However, the 94-95 cars may not like the TFS Stage 1 camshaft that comes in this kit....thus requiring a tune.

An N/A combo ^^ like the one above should net aproximately +/- 285 RWHP....(with supporting mods like full exhaust etc)

After that I suggest you to drive it around like that for a while....if you want more power, then get either a nitrous kit or stepup to a supercharger like a Vortech kit...(also upgrade your fuel system, and get a tune)...

mich_666 · Apr 1, 2008

so should it be set in stone that if i were to get a stroker kit, its goin to be expensive?
after all this input, im seeing myself leaning towards a 306.

The motor is out of an 88 coupe. but the lower end is no good, which is why im wanting to replace the whole rotating assy.

i have a motor in my 95 right now with 170 000km, and its running great. but im just wanting to build a motor up as a side project, just something i can take my time on; ie.
if im aiming for more expensive internals its not a problem, itll just take longer because of $$.

Also, i AM steering away from ebay/china kits, i have been warned... i was looking at summit's SCAT kits. those forged aluminum pistons hold up alright?

i would also like to add, that im looking to get some afr's for this setup, expensive but as far as ive been told its money well spent for very good flowing heads....

Paul · Apr 1, 2008

I've seen multiple Summit 306 rebuild kits runs BOTTOM 10s in a stock block.

mich_666 · Apr 1, 2008

Paul said:
I've seen multiple Summit 306 rebuild kits runs BOTTOM 10s in a stock block.

anyone else hear good things?
just took a look at fordstrokers.com and adperformance at their 331. i like the prices, but again prolly not a good idea on a stock block...? those kits any good?

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 1, 2008

Paul said:
I've seen exactly TWO 302-based strokers exceed 400 dyno-verified rwhp n/a. Lots of folks think it's easy to make that kind of power. It isn't.

Otherwise, good advice in this thread.

Paul.

Click me

This guy did it with a stroker kit, near box stock Victor Jrs, a Victor EFI, Custom cam, all the correct mods to support the kind of power he wanted and a great tune.

Not saying it'd be cheap but totally doable on a moderate budget and he's not the only one.

However lets not turn this into a "347 capabilities" thread. I just hope the OP realizes that the more power you make NA the less streetable the car will be. A blower on a mild 302 HCI build is a better high hp street car on the stock block. But the stock block is iffy for making big power, some blocks split at as little as 450 to the wheels, some go upwards of 600 but those are ticking time bombs IMO. In any event you WILL need a really good tune.

Magic · Apr 1, 2008

ScottyDsntKnow said:
Click me

This guy did it with a stroker kit, near box stock Victor Jrs, a Victor EFI, Custom cam, all the correct mods to support the kind of power he wanted and a great tune.

Not saying it'd be cheap but totally doable on a moderate budget and he's not the only one.

However lets not turn this into a "347 capabilities" thread. I just hope the OP realizes that the more power you make NA the less streetable the car will be. A blower on a mild 302 HCI build is a better high hp street car on the stock block. But the stock block is iffy for making big power, some blocks split at as little as 450 to the wheels, some go upwards of 600 but those are ticking time bombs IMO. In any event you WILL need a really good tune.

That yellow 94 GT is a really nice example...an old example, but a good one nonetheless... there is a write up on him on FordMuscle.com website, and I think that car was recently featured in a Magazine as well (5.0 or MM&FF, cant remember)....

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 1, 2008

There's a link in the thread somewhere to one of the magazine articles the car was in and it lists the whole combo. Yeah it is old but its still running after 2 or 3 seasons.

Magic · Apr 1, 2008

ScottyDsntKnow said:
There's a link in the thread somewhere to one of the magazine articles the car was in and it lists the whole combo. Yeah it is old but its still running after 2 or 3 seasons.

Yea, thats the good thing...showing its longevity as well after those 2-3 years...

fastgtfairlane · Apr 1, 2008

that yellow 94gt has every little thing to it to help as much as possible. hes running a set of custom stepped headers that were around i believe 600 bucks or so. full 3 inch exhaust, aluminum flywheel, i believe a g-force t-5. hes got a pretty agressive cam too. he has been tuning on that car for quite some time too. its got some suspension mods too. there was a thread he started on corral.net and he made like 463 hp to the tires and ran like 10.70s in street trim on 18 inch drag radials!!!! i love that car and it is nasty.

Stangbangin · Apr 1, 2008

ScottyDsntKnow said:
Paul said:

I've seen exactly TWO 302-based strokers exceed 400 dyno-verified rwhp n/a. Lots of folks think it's easy to make that kind of power. It isn't.

Otherwise, good advice in this thread.

Paul.

Click to expand...

Click me

This guy did it with a stroker kit, near box stock Victor Jrs, a Victor EFI, Custom cam, all the correct mods to support the kind of power he wanted and a great tune.

Not saying it'd be cheap but totally doable on a moderate budget and he's not the only one.

However lets not turn this into a "347 capabilities" thread. I just hope the OP realizes that the more power you make NA the less streetable the car will be. A blower on a mild 302 HCI build is a better high hp street car on the stock block. But the stock block is iffy for making big power, some blocks split at as little as 450 to the wheels, some go upwards of 600 but those are ticking time bombs IMO. In any event you WILL need a really good tune.

Thats a pretty rare case. I haven't seen one do it in person and only a few on the internet. Giving most of our abilities and pocketbooks, that is just out of the question.

Paul · Apr 1, 2008

I never said it couldn't be done, I said I've only seen TWO - and I know a LOT of fast Mustangs around here.

My club has a guy with a 306 that makes a legitimate 376 rwhp and runs 11s at 117 mph in a convertible fox - however, that does not mean it was easy or cheap. He insists it is streetable, but there's no way I'd want to drive it on the street everyday.

Paul.