Getting some more power from my Mach

[duff daddy]

gears will NOT improve et.. at all.. it will just improve acceleration.. but wont get u there any quicker(if that makes any sense.) underdrive pully cams headers tires is about all you can do with that mach. for cheap

Its funny you say that but gears with the right tire set up will get you a higher trap MPH thus helping your ET become lower. I understand what your saying its like the arguement of gears and HP, gears effect hp only because you have less time to build the power as its being metered.

I'm thinking about adding a ported intake, and installing some 96-98 cobra intake cams to get some more power. Hopefully I can save three tenths at the 1/4 mile with this stuff. That should get me my 11 second pass N/A that I'm looking for.

Do the intake, depending if you already have the Mach 1 Intake spacer, do that or get a slightly larger one, Other then that get some 28" tire and ger some 4.30's

i ran a MASSIVE slick in my car. i ran a faster ET with a slower MPH.

what he is saying is not *WRONG*... hes just *WRONG* in the fact that he stated his comment in a blanket-format.

"gears will NOT improve et.. at all.."

there are *rare* occations where this is true... but "not imporoving et *AT ALL*" is incorrect.
many boosted cars gain so little from a gear swap, that it is hardly worth swaping ratios.
but to put all cars in the same catagory and to say that a gear swap wont help ET on any of them, this is false.

i ran a 15.5 in my car with full bolt ons and 4.10s....
i had a friend who ran a 16.1 in a full bolt on -plus PI Swap- with stock gears.
after he went with 3.73s he ran a 15.7 (ish?)
and after a tune he ran a 14.. .. . something.
anyways, he owns a WS6 now. lol.



fact is:
gears will *PROBABLY* help atrain.


look at the extreams of the argument:
if it didnt help at all, we would all be running with 1.094:1 ratios...
if it was a fix-all, we would all be running with 12.1389:1 ratios...

there is a happy median, and 3.73s/4.10s tend to be the choice for most 8.8 mustang drivers who want performance.

Chris its pretty funny that you bring this up. You can take a STOCK Mach1 with 4.88's and a 29" tire i believe it was and run 11's how do i know this, I got beat about 3 times this year by a guy with this exact set up, all stock, hell I even think it had oe manifolds and k member too. Shift the shitt outta it and hold on. Gears will help acceleration, they only become a disadvantace in na applications when you run out of time to shift (ie shifts become too quick) With Adams t56 and the TERRIBLE first gear the 4.10's or even 4.30's and his larger tire will help alot!

 

[atrainsgt]

If I didn't run this car on nitrous id go up to 4.88's from my current 4.30's.

 

[duff daddy]

3.27's

10/05/08 Left 09:50:00 AM 207 0.902 2.274 6.452 9.732 77.070 12.393 14.568 104.400
10/05/08 Left 10:21:00 AM 207 0.420 2.466 6.674 9.840 78.900 12.453 14.602 105.620
10/05/08 Left 11:31:00 AM 207 0.104 2.031 5.774 8.855 79.930 11.461 13.617 105.180
10/05/08 Left 03:23:00 PM 207 0.411 1.931 5.573 8.572 81.210 11.147 13.291 105.560
10/05/08 Left 04:23:00 PM 207 0.152 1.980 5.683 8.767 80.060 11.372 13.534 104.750
10/10/08 Left 09:01:00 PM 780 0.191 2.085 5.824 8.860 80.790 11.442 13.584 105.840
10/10/08 Left 09:43:00 PM 780 0.664 2.015 5.667 8.661 81.940 11.210 13.330 106.910
10/10/08 Left 09:55:00 PM 780 0.051 2.105 5.787 8.759 82.260 11.301 13.416 107.130

Now with 3.73
10/19/09 Left 09:18:00 AM 711 0.306 1.913 5.555 8.566 82.950 11.101 13.255 105.070
10/19/09 Right 09:48:00 AM 711 0.082 1.870 5.486 8.456 83.910 10.986 13.121 106.140
10/19/09 Left 11:52:00 AM 711 0.048 1.846 5.419 8.376 83.850 10.887 13.026 105.260
10/19/09 Left 01:55:00 PM 711 0.161 1.827 5.336 8.259 84.780 10.742 12.861 106.750
10/19/09 Left 03:50:00 PM 711 0.280 1.914 5.603 8.593 83.440 11.104 13.251 103.840
04/19/09 Left 10:26:00 AM 889 0.151 1.981 5.585 8.597 81.900 11.096 13.228 108.920

 

[MustangChris]

i had some tall ass slicks on my car (fit for a 9 second pass) (bigger than the TT mach that was at the track running high 10s/low 11s lol) and it totally stole my MPH right out from under me....

the problem is im not smart enough to convay my point over the internet... .. .. i honestly dont know how to explain it, simply because i dont know how it happens... i only know from my personal experience.

its like asking a caveman to explain the rising of the sun... they dono how, they just know it happens. lol.

the gears make the axle spin X numbers of times per rotation of the driveshaft.
the tall tires take a longer time to make 1 full rotation than a smaller tire.
thus, the taller tires may allow for a better ET due to R/T, 60', better traction, etc. But they will rob MPH due to the larger diameter of each "spin" of the wheel.

or maybe i have it backwards... i dono. the ET is lowered, but the MPH is raised?

... im sure sxynerd could come in here and tell you about how retarded i am and set all of us straight... but thats my best attempt at explaining my . .. "expierience"?

heres das slicks i was runnin... it was cool to get everyone to pay attention to a NPI GT

<img src="http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4359/1841/23395920047_large.jpg">

 

[atrainsgt]

I get more MPH with the 28" slicks vs my 26" tall slicks. Usually only 1-2 mph though. Times are quicker on the 26" tall slicks. I've made roughly 40 passes in this car over the past two months trying different things.

 

[duff daddy]

Chris I know how it works ive been running my car long enough, spend enough time on NMRA cars and other vehicles to know whats going on. As I said, if you dont have the right combo of gear and tire ( they work in sequence) then you wll be all jacked up. Bigger the tire the more gear you need to have to hit a HIGHER mph. If you dont have the power to spin thoes tires you might as well not even use them. I just posted slips that pretty much prove that with a given tire size a gear change will increase both et and mph. If you go too drastic on either (gear or tire) you will start to lose one or both.

 

[MustangChris]

3.27's

10/05/08 Left 09:50:00 AM 207 0.902 2.274 6.452 9.732 77.070 12.393 14.568 104.400
10/10/08 Left 09:55:00 PM 780 0.051 2.105 5.787 8.759 82.260 11.301 13.416 107.130

Now with 3.73
10/19/09 Left 09:18:00 AM 711 0.306 1.913 5.555 8.566 82.950 11.101 13.255 105.070
04/19/09 Left 10:26:00 AM 889 0.151 1.981 5.585 8.597 81.900 11.096 13.228 108.920

this post proves my point.

#1, that gears tend to help N/A cars the most.
#2, that gears tend to help in most cases.

the one thing i said is that gears *may not* help all cars. which is true. some turbo cars lower their ratio.
kenne bell did a test on a fox body where they swaped gears and gained some measily amount on the E.T... nothing worth changing gears over...

I quote myself:
"there are *rare* occations where this is true..." (speaking towards gears not helping cars gain ET.)

"fact is:
gears will *PROBABLY* help atrain."
(i say probably because im not an expert and the last thing i want is atrain saying "you told me they would for sure help!" it would also be hypocritical to say they would definantly help when my previous statement was "on rare occations they do not.")

here is more support for changing gears (came from my fingertips to your eyes!)
"i ran a 15.5 in my car with full bolt ons and 4.10s....
i had a friend who ran a 16.1 in a full bolt on -plus PI Swap- with stock gears.
after he went with 3.73s he ran a 15.7 (ish?)
and after a tune he ran a 14.. .. . something."



POST #4 OF THIS THREAD!!!!

"maybe a stouter gear?"


.. . .. . >.< I *want* him to change gear ratios... i think they will help him... i just wanted to add that yes, on rare occations raising the gear ratio is not benificial.

 

[MustangChris]

Chris I know how it works ive been running my car long enough, spend enough time on NMRA cars and other vehicles to know whats going on. As I said, if you dont have the right combo of gear and tire ( they work in sequence) then you wll be all jacked up. Bigger the tire the more gear you need to have to hit a HIGHER mph. If you dont have the power to spin thoes tires you might as well not even use them. I just posted slips that pretty much prove that with a given tire size a gear change will increase both et and mph. If you go too drastic on either (gear or tire) you will start to lose one or both.

oh. i get what you were saying... i thought you were just shrugging off what i was saying because it wasnt eye-to-eye with what you were saying...

i was trying to meet eye-to-eye. ... thats all.

what you are saying plays right into my personal experience with my 4.10s and the tall slicks.


i was just.. . .. "not picking up what you were throwing down".. . . as some of us ballars would say.

 

[duff daddy]

Its not that we wernt seeing eye to eye, its that you dont understand drag racing. If you did there is NO reason ou would have put such a tall tire on your car. with my 3.73's I run a 26" with my 4:10's and t45 ill still run a 26" and it will put me at the 1320 mark at 6k which is perfect! This if you knew ANYTHING then you wouldnt have put such a tall tire on a car with your gear. Please try not to give tech advise to someone who has more experience on the strip then you ( im talking about you giving advise to Adam)

 

[MustangChris]

Its not that we wernt seeing eye to eye, its that you dont understand drag racing. If you did there is NO reason ou would have put such a tall tire on your car. with my 3.73's I run a 26" with my 4:10's and t45 ill still run a 26" and it will put me at the 1320 mark at 6k which is perfect! This if you knew ANYTHING then you wouldnt have put such a tall tire on a car with your gear. Please try not to give tech advise to someone who has more experience on the strip then you ( im talking about you giving advise to Adam)

i put the tall tire on my car because my friend said "here, borrow my slicks, my 11second chevelle isnt running... so lets see what the mustang can do with them!"

They now reside in his garage again, but now they have 2 passes on them.

also, i refer to the 4th post of the thread...



finally, i refer to the fact that the largest "monkey-wrench" in this thread is the fact that someone stated "gears *do not* help ets"
*this person was not me*
i simply wanted to clear things up to make sure everyone understood that gears, **on occation**, do not help the 1/4 mile ET, especially when you are strictly looking at going with a higher gear ratio.

i just want you (amongst others on the forum) to keep a modest atitude toward car noobs.... not all of us had a dad who was into cars to teach us, or have $40,000 for wyotech, or have a second car to take apart; we rely on friends to help. Clearing something up to someone who is mistaken doesnt have to a be a prick-vs-dumbass situation...

 

[Paul]

MustangChris - stop giving tech advice. If you don't understand the concepts in theory and in application well enough to clearly articulate them over the internetz, it's better that you keep your proverbial mouth shut.

Paul.

 

[duff daddy]

That's fine Chris we know its the white mach that stated that fact and hasn't come back to the thread yet.

As far as the last comment, My father grew up in Boston and is in sales. He wouldn't know the difference between a piston and a radiator if his life depended on it.

The next one about Wyotech, I don't know if that was directed to me or not but I did go and I went for Collision Refinishing and Service Management. Once again if this comment was directed to me GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT before you make open claims.

I do all the work on my car beside porting and doing the machine work on the block this winter.

 

[MustangChris]

MustangChris - stop giving tech advice. If you don't understand the concepts in theory and in application well enough to clearly articulate them over the internetz, it's better that you keep your proverbial mouth shut.

Paul.

"the problem is im not smart enough to convay my point over the internet... .. .. i honestly dont know how to explain it, simply because i dont know how it happens... i only know from my personal experience."


man, you guys are good!


i guess "articulate" is a better word than "convay..."

That's fine Chris we know its the white mach that stated that fact and hasn't come back to the thread yet.

As far as the last comment, My father grew up in Boston and is in sales. He wouldn't know the difference between a piston and a radiator if his life depended on it.

The next one about Wyotech, I don't know if that was directed to me or not but I did go and I went for Collision Refinishing and Service Management. Once again if this comment was directed to me GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT before you make open claims.

I do all the work on my car beside porting and doing the machine work on the block this winter.

I wasnt directing that comment directly at you. I was directing it at everyone who is pretty knowlegeable about cars in general. i was simply reminding them that they were not always that smart, and that they may have had learning experiences some of us cant obtain.

the entire statement, whether it be about the dad or wyotech, was a general claim to the forum. I wanted everyone who reads this thread (who has a much better education on cars) to keep in mind the fact that we are here to learn, and you smart ones on the forum are automatically seen as teachers.

I doubt any of us would be able to read if the teacher in school simply said " you dont understand books at all... dont even talk about books until you understand them."

its not your fault you are seen as the teacher.. thats just the way it goes... if i cut my finger, im going to ask a doctor for advise. if i break a timing chain..... you smart car guys (on this forum in particular) are going to be the people us not-so-smart car guys ask for advise...

Paul, it would be a little mroe refreshing to see you explain something a noob who is struggling with something instead of telling us to STFU... i know you may not get your jollys off of teaching people about cars... but it really puts a damper on the forum when we are shown the "proverbial door" instead of an honest attempt at help....

 

[duff daddy]

Its not that we dont want someone to learn but someone who doenst know the facts should NEVER give tech advise, BAD tech is 10x's worse then NO tech..... Thats the problem I have with some of the stuff.

 

[95PGTTech]

Maybe it's just me, but the amount of work to put cams into a mod 4V and you're going with stock 96-98 stuff...wow...

 

[atrainsgt]

Intake cams are fairly easy to do. Degreeing them is what takes a while. Fr500's will go in this summer when I pull the engine.

 

[MustangChris]

well, i just want to point out that i never tried to throw out any hard-core info. I mentioned a test kenne bell performed, and my personal experience.

I made note to mention that these two resources are kenne bell (in which case the OP can look it up) and a personal experience (in which case the OP can take it or leave it)

i also want to clear up that i was agreeing with you on the *fact* that "gears will NOT improve et.. at all.." is a false statement and i was just trying to provide clearity on the situation.

I finally want to point out that i never told him what gears to buy. I simply made the suggestion of a stouter gear (#4.)


One of the first posts i made on this forum was about blowers and how i "thought" they worked... Hellion did a good job of pwning me, and to this day i have made a strong attempt to never give out tech advise that i couldnt argue about. In this case "Maybe stouter gears."

Feel free to point out "bad tech advise" i give, as i do not want to give any...

 

[MustangChris]

Intake cams are fairly easy to do. Degreeing them is what takes a while. Fr500's will go in this summer when I pull the engine.

aaron has FR500s he will probably sell you, if you PM him.

 

[atrainsgt]

Intake cams are fairly easy to do. Degreeing them is what takes a while. Fr500's will go in this summer when I pull the engine.

aaron has FR500s he will probably sell you, if you PM him.

Already set that deal up. Probably getting his when he pulls them.

 

[MustangChris]

Intake cams are fairly easy to do. Degreeing them is what takes a while. Fr500's will go in this summer when I pull the engine.

aaron has FR500s he will probably sell you, if you PM him.

Already set that deal up. Probably getting his when he pulls them.

oh, nice. i didnt know he had them installed...