HELP ME WITH MY TIMING!

cntchds · Feb 11, 2008

Yes, I hate it too when people use all caps on the internet, but in fact this is because I'm yelling.

I worked on the timing today, and though it idles beautifully with the Spout connector out, it still lobes and rattles when I plugged that SPOUT connector back in. What gives? :dunno:

I thought it was only supposed to help maintain the idle if the timing was off. Now it's over compensating even though the timing is spot on. Can anyone help me?

It wouldn't bug me so much if it wasn't so perfect while the SPOUT connector was off.

ryclef331 · Feb 11, 2008

what are you setting it at? Do you have a tune? WHat are your mods...

cntchds · Feb 11, 2008

No mods, no tune, setting the timing at 10*BTDC(or AIC whichever bit of alphabet soup you prefer) which is the stock setting.

Paul · Feb 12, 2008

Do you still have the OEM balancer on the car? If it has a lot of miles, your balancer may have slipped which would cause inaccurate timing readings.

cntchds · Feb 12, 2008

Yes it does, and 200K miles. I never thought of that. It seemed like it ran the best when it was timed to the mark on the balancer 10*BTDC which would be the same as the factory setting. Anywhere other than that with the SPOUT connector off idled very poorly, which is why I suspected the computer to be the culprit. I'll bring it in today and see what my mechanic tells me.

Thanks Paul

forkliftfixr · Feb 12, 2008

ok, whats the spout connector?

Paul · Feb 12, 2008

forkliftfixr said:
ok, whats the spout connector?

It's the little white plastic connector on your passenger side inner fender that you remove when you set timing. Removing it prevents the computer from altering timing based on the timing curves programmed into the ECU.

Paul.

cntchds · Feb 12, 2008

I had i set at 10* AIC(which I was told is the same as BTDC) and the guy tells me that I have it set at 20*ATDC. And that I have to get it checked again! This is getting ridiculous. I set it to the line right at the end of the 0 on where it says "AIC 10".

Should I just bite the bullet and let them time it?

ryclef331 · Feb 12, 2008

ok...get under the car yourself and find the mark on the balancer where you want to time the car to. 10^ Before TDC. Mark it with some white out or something clearly visible. When you're looking the the timing mark, you should be lining it up with the flat side that says "TIME." Not through the little hole in the tab or some other crazy ish like that.

cntchds · Feb 12, 2008

You're supposed to time from under the car? I was timing it to line up with the "blade" that can be seen looking down onto the balancer from the passenger side. That's where I was told to line it up to...

ryclef331 · Feb 12, 2008

cntchds said:
You're supposed to time from under the car? I was timing it to line up with the "blade" that can be seen looking down onto the balancer from the passenger side. That's where I was told to line it up to...

no no...I was just saying get under the car to see exactly where on the balancer you're going to set you timing. It helps to see it when you're shooting it with the timing light from up top. If you're looking at the blade, you got it. Honestly, your timing doesn't have very much to do with surging idle. Have you read the sticky at the top of this section?

cntchds · Feb 13, 2008

Yes, I have and have gone through that a few times. That helped somewhat, but wasn't really a huge difference. I'll try to get under today and get some pictures if I still can't figure it out.

topless95 · Feb 13, 2008

Is it possible you may have a vacuum leak causing the poor idle/surging issue??

cntchds · Feb 13, 2008

Last weekend I went through and replaced all my vacuum lines, so I doubt it is one of them. I don't really care about that right now as much as correct ignition timing, since that's the reason I've failed twice...

cntchds · Feb 14, 2008

So I had set it to ATDC... after close inspection 10* BTDC was covered in some sort of white out type thing, which is why I couldn't see another ten. Sanded that off, and chalked the section to see the new ten, and it does fairly well. When I plugged the spout connector back in and tried to look at where it was, to the best I could tell it was between the 20 and 30 with the spout on. Dead on 10 without. I don't know why it would change it from the correct timing. My dad suggested that maybe it does that because the block is cold?

ryclef331 · Feb 15, 2008

cntchds said:
So I had set it to ATDC... after close inspection 10* BTDC was covered in some sort of white out type thing, which is why I couldn't see another ten. Sanded that off, and chalked the section to see the new ten, and it does fairly well. When I plugged the spout connector back in and tried to look at where it was, to the best I could tell it was between the 20 and 30 with the spout on. Dead on 10 without. I don't know why it would change it from the correct timing. My dad suggested that maybe it does that because the block is cold?

Taking the spout connecter out takes the timing control completely away from the ECU. When you plug the spout back in, you give it back to the ECU...so it adjusts the timing as neccessary. That is normal. What is your TPS voltage at idle? If it is too high, it can make the ecu think you're trying to "go" so it bumps timing to accel the motor...not enough air to accel, goes rich, engine dies down....back and forth it goes...surging. You might wanna look into checking some sensors. I don't think your issue is with timing. Try out a new coolant temp sensor and air inlet temp. Have you cleaned your maf? You should be doing all this stuff with the motor hot ideally (at operating temp).

cntchds · Feb 15, 2008

My idle is no longer surging... I really should have added that. I was just surprised that the computer would "correct" the ignition timing if it was already set correctly.

I've gone through the steps from that stickied thread, and know that the TPS voltage is correct, that the MAF is clean, and that the coolant temp sensor (replaced) is working properly.

So I guess I just have to try to warm the car up before looking at the timing with the spout connector in.