Laughing Gas and Crytal

[amy98gt]

ok has anybody ever heard of anyone secsessfully using both nitrous "laughing gas :laughing4:" and meth "crystal :drunken_smilie:"? and i can be any number of meth ie: liquid methanol injection, methane gas, nitro meth, exct.

 

[mygreengt]

wtf

 

[MadStang]

I feel that my IQ has dropped into the negatives for having read this.

 

[Untame-d]

Drugs are bad for the Mustang. :nono:

 

[amy98gt]

ok enough hate mail.

the question was somewhat serious. i over heard some bs yesterday from a guy who says he races sport bikes. any who he claims that he runs nitrous and meth. letting them detonate with each other directly in the cylinders. its prob total bs but had to see if any thing of that sort was infact possible.

 

[95PGTTech]

Possible? Yes. Stupid? Equally.

Both are stored in a tank of some kind then pumped either by pressure or mechanically through lines to the intake system (either the tube or directly to manifold). From there they both mix with the air/fuel charge and are pushed into the cylinder and combusted.

It's stupid because they both serve the same purpose. F/I guys use a 50/50 mix of methanol and water to cool the intake charge (water) and increase the available octane of the air/fuel mixture (methanol). Essentially it's injecting race gas. Both the lower IATs and the increased octane allow the tuner to run more timing in the motor and more boost as detonation is greatly more resisted. Some feel they do not need the lower IATs (air-to-air intercooled cars, for example) and run straight methanol under high boost, essentially injecting race gas into the vehicle.

Nitrous gives horespower addition by bringing in extra molecules of oxygen than if normal air charge was taking up the space that the nitrous was, and by dropping IATs, allowing more power and timing to be added. F/I guys use these to spool turbocharger systems and give great horsepower increases on F/I and N/A applications.

Nitrous is, by far, the better solution if you're looking for a higher octane, detonation preventing fuel to add to a F/I vehicle. Having two is a redundant system. Especially on a race bike where every ounce matters. As far as nitro methane, I have no experience and cannot comment, but most guys running it are rebuilding motors on each pass, so I doubt it.

 

[amy98gt]

+1

that was my thought. i wanst sure what the purpose of running both was. i rum liquid meth on my 04 lightning but i dont have a big intercooler either. and i dont run nitrous. and i know liquid meth does great on low octain N/A cars. but i never heard of using both.

 

[badass96gt]

For anyone that doesnt know about water/meth injection with N/A, Boosted or Nitrous cars read the link below. All questions and "myths" will be answered!!

http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=gasoline

 

[blown98gt]

Not 100% true because really you could do nitrous into the intercooler to cool the air and then meth into the intake but you could cool the air too much and cause issues that way ... imo meth is more than enough

 

[modo]

has more then one benefit


http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems....r-Methanol-Injection-System/article_info.html

 

[rz5.0]

Possible? Yes. Stupid? Equally.

Both are stored in a tank of some kind then pumped either by pressure or mechanically through lines to the intake system (either the tube or directly to manifold). From there they both mix with the air/fuel charge and are pushed into the cylinder and combusted.

It's stupid because they both serve the same purpose. F/I guys use a 50/50 mix of methanol and water to cool the intake charge (water) and increase the available octane of the air/fuel mixture (methanol). Essentially it's injecting race gas. Both the lower IATs and the increased octane allow the tuner to run more timing in the motor and more boost as detonation is greatly more resisted. Some feel they do not need the lower IATs (air-to-air intercooled cars, for example) and run straight methanol under high boost, essentially injecting race gas into the vehicle.

Nitrous gives horespower addition by bringing in extra molecules of oxygen than if normal air charge was taking up the space that the nitrous was, and by dropping IATs, allowing more power and timing to be added. F/I guys use these to spool turbocharger systems and give great horsepower increases on F/I and N/A applications.

Nitrous is, by far, the better solution if you're looking for a higher octane, detonation preventing fuel to add to a F/I vehicle. Having two is a redundant system. Especially on a race bike where every ounce matters. As far as nitro methane, I have no experience and cannot comment, but most guys running it are rebuilding motors on each pass, so I doubt it.

i dont think nitrous increases octane its not fuel its not flammable i dont think nitous helps with detonation . meth inj and help with detonation lets you increase timing nitrous does not.
[

 

[95PGTTech]

I run a lot more timing in my nitrous tune than in my pump gas or race gas tune. Nitrous drastically drops the IAT2s, helping prevent detonation and letting you crank the timing up, if you've got the balls. Most follow an addage drop a plug cold range and 2 degrees timing per 50hp nitrous. But these are old, poorly tuned myths. Just like good diesel tunes make big power without giant black clouds...These gains from nitrous would be magnified on a F/I car as you get the benefit of the extra oxygen delivered to the combustion chamber and the gains from dropping IATs...look at pullied, nitrous Terminators.

 

[NCMystic]

windshield washer is 60/40 water methanol mix and a fck ton cheaper to run all the time than boost juice. has to be compensated for in your tune though. no one had mentioned . . . .

also i've not heard of people blowing their motor when missing a shift on water meth, although a possability regardless.

also never heard of cabin fires from water meth. you can have it's reservous under the hood and not have nitrous lines running through the cabin. this was the biggest detourant for nitrous to me.

 

[vermilion]

nitrous lines can be leak checked periodically with soapy water.

 

[Win]

:glasses6:

 

[BigTang]

nitrous and boost on my junkyard build

 

[vermilion]

I run a lot more timing in my nitrous tune than in my pump gas or race gas tune. Nitrous drastically drops the IAT2s, helping prevent detonation and letting you crank the timing up, if you've got the balls. Most follow an addage drop a plug cold range and 2 degrees timing per 50hp nitrous. But these are old, poorly tuned myths. Just like good diesel tunes make big power without giant black clouds...These gains from nitrous would be magnified on a F/I car as you get the benefit of the extra oxygen delivered to the combustion chamber and the gains from dropping IATs...look at pullied, nitrous Terminators.

or a good t-trimmed 2v.

 

[ryclef331]

I run a lot more timing in my nitrous tune than in my pump gas or race gas tune. Nitrous drastically drops the IAT2s, helping prevent detonation and letting you crank the timing up, if you've got the balls. Most follow an addage drop a plug cold range and 2 degrees timing per 50hp nitrous. But these are old, poorly tuned myths. Just like good diesel tunes make big power without giant black clouds...These gains from nitrous would be magnified on a F/I car as you get the benefit of the extra oxygen delivered to the combustion chamber and the gains from dropping IATs...look at pullied, nitrous Terminators.

Then your car is tuned shittlely for the all motor tune. There is a huge difference between retarding the timing you currently run and retarding the timing you put in for the car to run optimally. example. Factory 5.0 comes set at say approx 10 degrees advanced. Put on 150 shot....and run it. As long as you run 93 or better gas, you'll probably be fine. Now take the same car and pretend we didnt put a kit on it. Bump it to 16 degrees so it runs optimally on motor. Slap a 150 shot on it and you're asking for trouble. I take serious issue with your post b/c it you're throwing out crap knowledge. Telling someone to crank the timing up on nitrous is just plain stupid. The cooling affect of the intake charge is on benefit of nitrous, true. The real benefit is the addition of the additional oxygen. A nitrous "warms up" and reaches atmospheric pressure, it breaks down releasing the oxygen molecules and nitrogen molecules. The additional oxygen allows you to add more fuel there by making more power. I'm sure you already know this...but the nitrogen helps stabilize the mix to prevent detonation. Its not the MOST stable mix ever and the explosion upon ignition is faster than without the added oxygen. To tell someone "yeah thats dinosaur technology" in a nut shell is ignorant. It make work fine on smaller shots where the stakes are less high but ask any serious racer if they "bump" timing when spraying higher than when running motor, and they'll tell you no....for a damn good reason. I don't pull 6 degrees for my 175shot with colder plugs for nothing. I do it b/c the motor would ping and come apart. Check your jetting. You're spewing out misinformation. Ever wonder why people don't just spray straight oxygen into motors? It makes for an extremely violent and unstable detonation and causes shit to just plain break.

To the original poster, the bike guy was PROBABLY talking about running his bike on straight methanol...or alcohol. However you wanna call it. And spraying on top of that. Ever go to the track and have a car idle past you in the pits and your eyes burn OR you smell bubblegum? Thats a fuelie car. Not methonal injection on top of race gas on top of nitroous.

 

[OnyxCobra]

I kinda feel like if you're not running any forced induction meth wouldn't do nearly as much for you as nitrous would, and if you are running some sort of boost I'd just pick one or the other, unless you go with a small shot I would think the nitrous would add more power. Personally I didn't want nitrous so i went with meth.

 

[ryclef331]

I kinda feel like if you're not running any forced induction meth wouldn't do nearly as much for you as nitrous would, and if you are running some sort of boost I'd just pick one or the other, unless you go with a small shot I would think the nitrous would add more power. Personally I didn't want nitrous so i went with meth.

What I am trying to iterate is that there is a difference between running a methanol injection kit and running a full methonal fuel system.

Methanol injection systems are used to cool the air intake charge and burns slower than gas thereby "raising the octane" of the fuel mix allowing higher boost, more timing, equating to more and safer power. NITROUS makes its power through the additional oxygen added. The cooling effect of the nitrous is a by product that DOES add power but its primary power-providing-source is the oxygen. Running a full methonal fuel system is used the same reason people inject it. Its consumes considerably MORE fuel than gasoline but its MUCH higher octane and MUCH cheaper than race gas. SO for a strictly race application, its cost beneficial and can potentially make a bit more power than just gas given the ability to get more aggressive with the tune.