Low dyno numbers

[95boss351]

Watsup guys. just need some feedback on my engine build and hp and tq numbers it produced. I built a 91 351w bored .030 over. It has trickflow twisted wedge track heat heads tht were milled down .0025. I have flat top pistons with valve relief. Stage 2 trickflow cam(duration 292/290 lift .542/.563), professional products typhoon intake, 75mm tb and 76mm maf. 42 lb/hr injectors and 255lph fuel pump. 1-3/4 long tube headers. I have other lil bolt ons but you can see these are the essentials that would be looked at when it comes to the tuning. This is a very mild build for a 351 but this was a budget project. With 12 degrees of timing, it produced 310rwhp to the wheels and 326rwtq. Im very dissappointed with these numbers. I think the guy who tuned it was very conservative and was very timid when it came to tuning my car. i think the motor should have at least produced 350-360rwhp and nearly 400rwtq. Do u guys see anything wrong with my setup 2 produce only 310hp and 326tq?
Also, I think if the timing was increased to 15 -17 degrees and a better intake i could see a better results.
Any feedback?

 

[Rice_slayer]

Crappy intake, and which heads exactly were they? If those are the heads that come with the TFS top end kit, those won't breathe enough for a 351w set-up. As Duffy would say, don't live by dyno numbers, the track proves your horsepower.

 

[Venom351R]

Yeah I know what's wrong w/ your set up. You put 302 parts on a 351 and then wondered why the numbers were low lol. The 351 needs air, it needs to breath and those parts just wont cut it, especially that crappy Tyhpoon intake. Thats why I hate budget builds b/c when they are done no one is ever happy with them. This is what my mild build 351 put down.

Stock block, AFR 185 Heads ( with 72cc combustion chambers) Trick Flow R intake, Custom Cam from Ed Curtis, Shorty headers and Magnapack exhaust w/ a Catted X pipe, 95MM Mass air meter.... 344 RWHP, 347 RWTQ.

Its in the process of getting new cylinder heads and long tubes and now has side exhaust. Your going to need to change more then just your intake. Those heads are to small.

 

[95boss351]

Rice Slayer-I hear wat ur saying. b4 the tune, i ran a 13.6 @106 with bald tires, shot supension and a horrible 60ft of 2.3 with less than 300 at the wheels. Thts easily a 12sec trap if i hook. But i still was expecting a lil more than tht. I honestly think my timing should be increased a little though

Venom351R-I wasnt expecting really high numbers. i was more concerned abt the tune. This motor was a project. My first build. When i built the motor, i set the timing at 12 degrees so tht the car could run decent to get sum mile on it. I just felt tht he could have spent a little more time with clocking everything in.
And like i said, this was a project. Next winter the motor will be coming out and getting a new 418 rotating assembly, set of afr 205's, spyder efi intake custom grind cam and at least 10.5:1 cr.

 

[det_riot]

Rice Slayer-I hear wat ur saying. b4 the tune, i ran a 13.6 @106 with bald tires, shot supension and a horrible 60ft of 2.3 with less than 300 at the wheels. Thts easily a 12sec trap if i hook. But i still was expecting a lil more than tht. I honestly think my timing should be increased a little though

Venom351R-I wasnt expecting really high numbers. i was more concerned abt the tune. This motor was a project. My first build. When i built the motor, i set the timing at 12 degrees so tht the car could run decent to get sum mile on it. I just felt tht he could have spent a little more time with clocking everything in.
And like i said, this was a project. Next winter the motor will be coming out and getting a new 418 rotating assembly, set of afr 205's, spyder efi intake custom grind cam and at least 10.5:1 cr.

I see your in michigan, where did you take your car to get it tuned if you dont mind me asking?

 

[95boss351]

watsup bro. yup im n the metro area. I went to alternative auto. Its on i think 23 mile and gratiot. its n chesterfield twp. Lidio does great work on boosted modular motors. His name is well known n michigan. I will b goin back this saturday

 

[BigTang]

look for a victor EFI intake (non-spider) and an XE282 cam, crane has a good one in that range too that I used to run but I can't find the number off hand. Probably 20-30 hp in that swap. I doubt you'll see much power from turning up the timing from whatever its at now. Take it to the track w/ a timing light and bump it up 2* at a time until you either ping or stop speeding up, then back it off 1* and go that way w/ it.

Typically a 351 makes less power than a 347 due to the weight of the crank so keep that in mind for comparisons.

 

[95boss351]

Sweet, thts the kind of feedback i was looking 4. Thnk bro. I was looking 2 get the victor efi and i was told it was 2 big but i was gonna get it anyway. Even the guy who tuned my car said to get it. So tht is the plan
and my timing is set at 12 degrees right now. Thts only 2 degrees more than stock and i figured i can go up a little more than tht

 

[BigTang]

the only part that you should ever consider too big is a cam. big lift on a cam is nothing, duration is what you have to watch out for. it screws w/ low end power, drivability and sometimes bleeds off compression making you give up a little power in the end.

a vic efi isn't really that big. it necks down to a 75mm TB opening so any larger w/o porting won't do much good so keep that in mind.

just curious why you have 42's on an NA car?

did the dyno show acceleration? basically a time from RPM A to RPM B? when you make changes go back to the same guy and compare the time as well as the HP. it'll give you an idea of what to expect at the track as far as drop or increase in ET.

 

[det_riot]

watsup bro. yup im n the metro area. I went to alternative auto. Its on i think 23 mile and gratiot. its n chesterfield twp. Lidio does great work on boosted modular motors. His name is well known n michigan. I will b goin back this saturday

Yupp i know right where that is, i actually called over there last week just to get a price on getting a dyno tune done. I've heard nothing but good about his work. I'm sure you yourself could probably get some more out of the car, what I've heard about him is that he tunes your car for the most power but to still be reliable and not blow it being an idiot. He tunes em pretty safe but very well from what i've heard. I'm from Dearborn but am going to school at Detroit Mercy so living around woodward/696

 

[VooDoo95Cobra]

if you get rid of those heads let me know. i need some for my 331 build. hope you get the numbers you are looking for.

 

[Venom351R]

How can the Victor EFI be to big when it was made for a 351 to begin with? I run that same intake on my current set up. There are only a few intakes Id put on a 351 based motor, one being the Victor EFI, The TFSR and the box upper. Other then that there are the sheet metal intakes or getting something ported like a holly systemax or something along those lines.

How much total timing did the car take before he backed it off? All are different but mine took a total of 36* before it stopped making power.

 

[95boss351]

Big Tang- Thts exactly wat i said. When i was talking around these were guys with 302's tht was sayin this but i was thinkin like how can it be 2 big if the throttle body port is only 75mm. But im using 42s because im also sprayin a 175 shot.
Det_roit- yea he is very safe when he tunes a car. I respect him 4 tht. Real cool guy. He is retuning my car on saturday 4 free because he tuned around alot of vacum leaks i missed. He usually charges 4 tht. So do u b on Woodward on the weekends?
Venom351R-I agree, those were the only ones i was looking at when i decided to do the 418. As 4 the timing i dont know off hand but i will find out. should have sum more info by this weekend

 

[det_riot]

yupp, i'm all around woodward on the weekends. last summer i was still in dbo so i hung out down around ocb in taylor but this summer i'll be at woodward all the time

 

[95boss351]

Sweet i will look 4 u. I wasnt on any scenes last year because i was getting my car painted. I will b all over the place this summer tho. U wont b able 2 miss my stang. i think im the only one n michigan with a sn95 with a 2010-2011 grabber blue paint job lmao

 

[det_riot]

haha yeah probably one of the only sn95's ever with it!

 

[95boss351]

lol yea i havent even seen any online with it. Its not completely done so im still working on it. not 2 much left 2 do

 

[95opal]

How can the Victor EFI be to big when it was made for a 351 to begin with? I run that same intake on my current set up. There are only a few intakes Id put on a 351 based motor, one being the Victor EFI, The TFSR and the box upper. Other then that there are the sheet metal intakes or getting something ported like a holly systemax or something along those lines.

How much total timing did the car take before he backed it off? All are different but mine took a total of 36* before it stopped making power.

Im with travis the combo is just to small for a 351 had it been on a 302 youd have a stout set up minus the intake.

 

[BlkoutGT]

Ive only heard of one person not being happy with lidio. He has always treated me well and you know he wont push your car to the brink of breaking. Have you guys seen his "wife's" notch back? I think he still remembers how to tune pushrod motors. That thing flies! lol. But don't get too down, you said your building a faster motor next winter anyway. You live and learn, just do a lot of research for the next combo and you wont be disappointed. With a couple changes you should have something close to what Venom's car had. So he probably has a good idea of what your going through (even though the 185s were on the car when bought). Now he has some Bada** FTI highports.

 

[95boss351]

Im not saying he doesnt know how 2 tune, im sayin tht i felt as tho since he didnt build the motor, he was timid on how far 2 take it. His notch is a 393 turbo tht he knows everything abt. The guy is a genious when it comes to boosted cars dont get me wrong, His reasoning of why he didnt take my car futher when he tuned it was "i didnt build it so im not sure how much it can take." The only thing he asked me was the size injectors, if the maf was calibrated to the injectors, and the cr. But on the other hand, the drivability of the car is 100% better. I do give him tht. Only thing is the throttle response is a little late and its still running way 2 rich so ge is gonna fix that this saturday. I will have sum results by next week