Need help timing after PI swap

[97blackgt]

Hey guys im doing the PI head swap, so far ive got everything apart, and the new heads are bolted on. Now im trying to set the timing on the passenger side, but i cant seem to get the chain to go on? Right now I have the guides and tensioner bolted down and the cam gear bolted tight.

My question is how do i get the chain over the cam gear easily?

 

[GDTrumbo]

Change order of assembly. I think the guide/rubbing block goes on last.... Once the chain is in it's correctly timed position, then the rubbing block is installed and then off to the left (dr. side) bank you go. I think this is correct but not 100% sure.

Do some research here. This part of the operation is a bit touchy.

GT

 

[glittle75]

try this, take the curved guide off, then un-bolt the tensioner again.

put your tensioner in a vise, or C-Clamp if you have one, and clamp the piston on it into the housing, so if you put it in, there would be no tension.

now, theres a little "foot" looking piece on the tensioner too, right beside the piston, turn it side to side a little while your clamping the piston down, and it will 'click' its way down into the housing also. once its all the way down and straight on the piston again, grab your self a decent sized paper clip. unbend it and stick one end into the SMALLEST hole on the front of the tensioner. it will hold that little 'foot' shaped plunger, in turn hodling the piston down.

now, with the paper clip collapsing the tensioner, install it back on the engine. put your guide back in, and put the chain on over the cam gear. line the timing marks up on your chain and gears. get the socket for the cam gear and a breaker bar or socket wrench. hold it in place, and pull the paper clip out.

the tensioner will pop back out and apply tension. double check yor timing marks again, then move to the other side.

 

[GDTrumbo]

^ Oh, your right! I forgot about the retainer hole in the tensioner. That's my missing link.

GT

 

[97blackgt]

Thanks guys I got it all set i think. One last question.... As long as the #1 cylinder is TDC it doesnt matter which strokw right? Rightr now i have it set so the #1 piston is TDC and all the chain marks and crank marks line up. So everything is ok right?

Just want to make sure its right before i fiunish up tomorrow

 

[GDTrumbo]

You need to make sure you are at TDC. Stroke does matter!
Back in the morning.

GT

 

[MustangChris]

^ +1

take 10 minutes and some elbow grease to save $5k in the long run

 

[GDTrumbo]

Thanks guys I got it all set i think. One last question.... As long as the #1 cylinder is TDC it doesnt matter which strokw right? Rightr now i have it set so the #1 piston is TDC and all the chain marks and crank marks line up. So everything is ok right?

Just want to make sure its right before i fiunish up tomorrow

OK. Back to this.... Stroke DOES matter. You need to go to Sean Hyland Motorsports website or somewhere and find out what direction the keyway on the front of the crank points when # 1 piston is at TDC before you even turn the crank by hand. There is a "safe zone" where the heads can be installed and there is guaranteed no piston/valve contact anywhere. I think it is like 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock. Then there is TDC. If your at the top of the exhaust stroke, engine destruction will ensue. I have read of many expensive mistakes done right here.

Do a search on this site (I think it's a link to Stangnet or something) or Google Sean Hyland Motorsports. I wouldn't buy anything from him but he is a master with the mod motors. He has some good articals on his site that cover timing these engines. Read closely.

You may have to perform this operation again. Good Luck.

GT

 

[97blackgt]

Thanks guys I got it all set i think. One last question.... As long as the #1 cylinder is TDC it doesnt matter which strokw right? Rightr now i have it set so the #1 piston is TDC and all the chain marks and crank marks line up. So everything is ok right?

Just want to make sure its right before i fiunish up tomorrow

OK. Back to this.... Stroke DOES matter. You need to go to Sean Hyland Motorsports website or somewhere and find out what direction the keyway on the front of the crank points when # 1 piston is at TDC before you even turn the crank by hand. There is a "safe zone" where the heads can be installed and there is guaranteed no piston/valve contact anywhere. I think it is like 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock. Then there is TDC. If your at the top of the exhaust stroke, engine destruction will ensue. I have read of many expensive mistakes done right here.

Do a search on this site (I think it's a link to Stangnet or something) or Google Sean Hyland Motorsports. I wouldn't buy anything from him but he is a master with the mod motors. He has some good articals on his site that cover timing these engines. Read closely.

You may have to perform this operation again. Good Luck.

GT

So as long as I turn the crank over by hand a few revolutions and nothing binds up....then everything should be good, right?

 

[GDTrumbo]

Sorry.... That's just an assumption. You could be right on but, it needs to be checked closely. Your timing sensor could be reading correctly but if the crank & cams are not in correct synch with each other, it won't run. Hunt down the info I posted last night and check it out. It's not too difficult. Take it a step at a time.

Worst case, you would have to perform the engine timing again. You don't want to find out later after assembly that you have to tear it down again and re-time it. Now is the time to find out.

GT

 

[glittle75]

not to insult anyones intelligence here, but where the hell are you guys coming up with this stroke crap?

no, it does not matter what stroke the SHORT BLOCK is in when you time the cams, If you have found a proper TDC for #1 cylinder, and installed the timing chains with the marks lined up, you will be fine.

then you need to do do the same thing for cylinder #6 for the drivers side. once you find that TDC, and line you cams up accordingly, theres no way you could be on the wrong stroke.

turning the shortblock over by hand while the heads are off has no effect on final assembly, think about it, if you found TDC for say your compression stroke, with the heads off, and turned the engine one complete revolution so your at the TDC of your exhaust stroke, one full revolution of the crack is gonna put all the piston exactly back where the were.

your crank position sensor, and cam position sensor determine what stroke the engine is on. the PCM gets a signal from the Crank trigger wheel, and the driver side cam gear, once it knows that Cyl. 1 is at TDC, and the intake valve is the next event to open, it fires the injectors, then spark, then moves on to the next cylinder.

so in short, if you have stock cams, or "stage 1" cams, you can just slap em in with the timing marks on your gears and be done. if you have a "stage 2" cam or more, you need to degree them. they will be around the factory marks, but not dead on them. if you are installing a small cam, or stock cams, and want to feel good, rotate the crank by hand, make sure it makes 8 full revolutions, and if you feel any resistance, stop.

hope this helps.

 

[GDTrumbo]

Just trying to help him out. I've timed many non-interference engines but not one of these.... yet. He didn't seem sure he properly found TDC for cyl.#1. TDC of #1's exhaust stroke is not the right place... correct? Upon reinstalling the VD with #1/#6 on TDC of the exhaust stroke, wouldn't the timing marks on the VD be in the wrong place?

GT

 

[navarro98gt]

This link might help you out.....

http://home.comcast.net/~phatdoggy/sohc_timing.htm

 

[GDTrumbo]

That's one of the many articals I've read. He shows the keyway and the 2 copper chain links aligned together @ the 6:00 position. There is another artical on fordmuscle.com, as well as Sean Hylands site, where the keyway and copper links are aligned together about 45* counterclockwise from the 6:00 position.

When I perform this operation to mine, you can count on me being very well prepared in advance.

GT

 

[97blackgt]

So ive got the two bronze links both pointing at 6 o clock, on the crank and ive got the resessed timing mark on the driver and passenger side lined up with each bronze link on the cam gears. All this was done while the engine was at #1 cylinder TDC. I turned the engine over 8-10 times and everything is ok and there was no binding.

On another note it took me three hours to get the dipstick tube put in by myself yesterday. What a PITA

 

[GDTrumbo]

Yea. The dipstick thing is a bummer. Almost takes 6 hands and 2 stupervisors.

Sound like your in good shape. I have read too many threads about guys not checking their work and destroying an engine at start up.

I'm sure you know your gonna have to run premium gas now.

GT

 

[glittle75]

good job man, your gonna love the power bump from the swap man. always better to ask than to bend valves.

I wish you would have said something about the dipstick, I have a flexible Lokar just chillin in my parts closet.

for anyone else that reads this, i HIGHLY reccomned the lokar, you can put it in the pan/block while the heads are off, set it out of the way, and stick in through the manifolds once you get the heads on, and even if you can't get it through your exhaust, its long enough to go around and has a tab with a hole on the neck, so you can pretty much attach it anywhere. I just went to work and made a little bracket off one of my valve cover bolts to attach it to.

sometimes its nice being a metalsmith for a living.

 

[GDTrumbo]

Does the OEM dipstick tube get damaged somehow during dis-assembly? Any way to avoid this seemingly "have to" operation?

GT

 

[glittle75]

if you can mange to get it out without tearing it up, you have very very light and small hands, and a lot a patience.

it is a "hard" line, not flexible, old and brittle, and it runs between the manifold on the Cyl. head.

you can't get it out while the manifold is attached to the head. it has to come off. and its in the block good, so you'll probly end up crimping it trying to get it out of the pan.

its way to much of a pain in the *ss to get it out. its worth it to save your time and energy, literally rip it out, and buy a new one. mine was in there so good i had to take out the head bolts, stand in the valley of the block, grab the head and literally snatch the dipstick out of the pan, using the head w/ manifold on it to "grip" the tube. took a couple good snatches too. that thing was in there good. cleaned up the hole, grabbed the new Lokar flexible, put some sealant on it, and put it in, put vise grips on the "nut" thats on the end, and tapped it all the way in with a hammer, then put it out of the way until final assembly.

 

[97blackgt]

yeah i dont think it would be practical to try and save the old tube. It would take forever and I still dont think it would come out without crimping it.

Yea I know I have to run premium gas now, which is ok because i always do anyways.

Hopefully its a good jump in power and i dont have any leaks. Should all be back together today I hope. Ill let ya know it all turns out well.