New car sound system help

[ttocs]

ok you know a lot(enough to be dangerous) but it seems like your still a little misinformed. for example its obvious you have not ever used a scope when you say it would not help you in setting gains and that has only one use vs a distortion detector/cross over calibrator could not be any more of an incorrect statement. Those two tools would only have one use each vs the scope can do both of the jobs those do, as well as many many other uses in testing/troubleshooting. if you know how to use it which is not as hard as you make it seem and its really the right tool for the job if your serious about sound which it sounds like your trying to be you will want to learn it. When you do you can look back at those two statements and you will laugh like I did.

Saying a meter is the cheapest way is also incorrect again people have been tuning systems by ear for free for decades before this volt meter idea came up. The easiest?! Tell me how doing all those calculations dragging out a meter and yer 40 hz disc is easier then throwing some music in and make it sound good to YOU!? Even using a scope would be easier as you would forget the calculation and turn on the scope, set it in the correct setting(just like a meter) and then you can see the signal grow till it clips, and then dial it back. Finally the idea its the most precise is just wrong as well but again I can now tell you don't know the magic a scope can do before you even take into consideration the differences in manf wattage ratings, difference in cheap-good meters and then hoping these people know how to use them.


T-taps - again ask anyone that does wiring in cars professionally and ask them if they like them? Then again ask any install professional how many systems he has tuned with a meter and he will laugh at you. AGain ask that pro if the scope is useless in gain/cross over setting? In all seriousness I considered using my mod priv here to edit out anything about t-taps as your just telling someone to install a future failure. I don't care how temporary the system may be as honestly I spent too many times trouble shooting crap was nothing more then an old t-tap connection.

Thanks for the digital lesson. I keep forgetting how my F1 DVI-9990 going through dual PXI-h990 media processors to a 11 channel fully active cross over system works, and it will all be tuned with a scope.....

In all seriousness I can tell you are into stereos and have got a lot of good info. In that same breath I have to say that some of the statements above just can't be any more wrong if you want to ask others. Me, I have only been dabbling in car audio for nearly 25 yrs now with 14 yrs working as a full time installer at everything from a high volume big box store to a custom shop in scottsdale next to barret jackson and the rolls royce/ferrari dealer, and then spent another 10 yrs working as an electronic technician for a semi-conductor manf working on 12 million dollar machines.

Finally if your going to give detailed instructions the details need to be right. You say in your instructions to set your meter to DC voltage and read the voltage at the sub. If your getting DC voltage on your subs signal your going to smoke your sub and trying to read an ac signal on a dc meter will never give good results.

 

[o36]

ok you know a lot(enough to be dangerous) but it seems like your still a little misinformed. for example its obvious you have not ever used a scope when you say it would not help you in setting gains and that has only one use vs a distortion detector/cross over calibrator could not be any more of an incorrect statement. Those two tools would only have one use each vs the scope can do both of the jobs those do, as well as many many other uses in testing/troubleshooting. if you know how to use it which is not as hard as you make it seem and its really the right tool for the job if your serious about sound which it sounds like your trying to be you will want to learn it. When you do you can look back at those two statements and you will laugh like I did.

Saying a meter is the cheapest way is also incorrect again people have been tuning systems by ear for free for decades before this volt meter idea came up. The easiest?! Tell me how doing all those calculations dragging out a meter and yer 40 hz disc is easier then throwing some music in and make it sound good to YOU!? Even using a scope would be easier as you would forget the calculation and turn on the scope, set it in the correct setting(just like a meter) and then you can see the signal grow till it clips, and then dial it back. Finally the idea its the most precise is just wrong as well but again I can now tell you don't know the magic a scope can do before you even take into consideration the differences in manf wattage ratings, difference in cheap-good meters and then hoping these people know how to use them.


T-taps - again ask anyone that does wiring in cars professionally and ask them if they like them? Then again ask any install professional how many systems he has tuned with a meter and he will laugh at you. AGain ask that pro if the scope is useless in gain/cross over setting? In all seriousness I considered using my mod priv here to edit out anything about t-taps as your just telling someone to install a future failure. I don't care how temporary the system may be as honestly I spent too many times trouble shooting crap was nothing more then an old t-tap connection.

Thanks for the digital lesson. I keep forgetting how my F1 DVI-9990 going through dual PXI-h990 media processors to a 11 channel fully active cross over system works, and it will all be tuned with a scope.....

In all seriousness I can tell you are into stereos and have got a lot of good info. In that same breath I have to say that some of the statements above just can't be any more wrong if you want to ask others. Me, I have only been dabbling in car audio for nearly 25 yrs now with 14 yrs working as a full time installer at everything from a high volume big box store to a custom shop in scottsdale next to barret jackson and the rolls royce/ferrari dealer, and then spent another 10 yrs working as an electronic technician for a semi-conductor manf working on 12 million dollar machines.

Finally if your going to give detailed instructions the details need to be right. You say in your instructions to set your meter to DC voltage and read the voltage at the sub. If your getting DC voltage on your subs signal your going to smoke your sub and trying to read an ac signal on a dc meter will never give good results.

Lol, taken back to school.

I wrote this this morning on the train into work, dealing with a hangover. I dunno what I was thinking about DC V vs AC V, I had to look at my multimeter in my tool box which I use to validate my work, and sure enough the last setting was AC V 200.

Also total fail on the oscope thing and setting gains, as you pointed out above it's entirely meant to detect clipping. I don't use t-taps but they are convenient, only until they fail again as you pointed out. You're probably right about just going to get an o-scope and learning how to use it; speaking of learning good habits and all.

The only thing I would disagree on is the tuning by ear, just because it sounds good to an untrained ear doesn't mean that ear can't be deceived. Multimeters are the cheapest most accurate way, but definitely not the ultimately most accurate way, or even the most right way.

I should'a proof read my post before hitting submit, not once, but twice after editing to say I solder and heat shrink, lol. Car audio is a fun hobby for me but it's just that a hobby; there's definitely a crap ton more that I can and should learn.

 

[ttocs]

ok good I am glad to know I didn't offend you as that wasn't my point but I know my short to the point tone can be taken that way. I would love to help you learn more and a scope is honestly one of the most useful tools in car audio. Its not any harder then a meter to learn honestly until you get into the GUI on most of the modern touch screen options now. I learned on an old school version and its probably the easiest to learn on since you learn what the controls are and not how that machines versions work.

T-taps I probably take a little too seriously but I am not joking about hours spent tracing wires to find the initial connection was bad from an old t-tap. But in all seriousness they just should not be used in a car environment.

Now the untrained ear comment is interesting and I can agree that many people for some reason do not understand what distortion or a clipping speaker sounds like. I am not sure why that when you turn the music up to the point the sound starts to sound change and sound bad that it seems like some imaginary point that you need my experience to hear. In short - your untrained ear will never be trained if you use a meter to tell you it sounds good. I can say now after years of doing this that because of it I can diagnose speakers that are wired out of phase and many other problems that a meter will never tell you and you will never learn till you try and learn. When your ears are the final judge of what sounds good using your eyes to say so to me is just funny and beside that I am sure my meter is a disco fan and there is just no way I can trust it.....