Planning a mild-ish supercharger build w/B heads. First 4V

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 7, 2016

My transmission will support only about 500hp right now with the stock input shaft. The combo I am building will be good for 650 with a cast crank or likely as much as the stock B heads can support with a forged one. Not sure what the upper limit of the B heads and intake is but the Novi 2000 is rated for a max PSI of 26lbs. So... never going to have to upgrade the blower thats for sure.

Want to run it at 500hp and then if I decide I want more I'll swap the trans, upgrade the fuel and crank the boost.

And I probably will go with a Forged crank just for peace of mind. Rods and pistons are rated to about 750 and I could probably get away with a cast crank but I'd rather not have a little gremlin in the back of my mind all the time going "cast crank might let go" if I ever pump the power level up to there.

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 11, 2016

Real low mileage B heads and cams off a 97 Cobra came in today. They look stupid clean. Got a friend a few states over who will clean them up and a valvejob for free but... shipping is going to be a *****.

96blak54 · Apr 12, 2016

Dont bowl hog them. Better to just lap the valves. Those seats have been cnc'd by a million dollar machine that shapes the seats properly to the ports purpose. Disturbing any of the angles will kill it. We think the factory valve work is the same as a machine shops, but its not. The factory actually uses a boring bar type cutter that is kind of a 5th axis allowing a very detailed shape. For instance, the left side of the seat has more cut than the right side at the same angle. Also back cuts on the seat towards the port before the 45Â° valve angle and machine shops cant replicate this. Its all there to help the rush swing around the seat without fuel tracking. Hope this helps!

Sounds like this build will fall into place easily with all your great scores with good parts!

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 12, 2016

Ok he was going to do a 5 angle valvejob. No good? Just have them lapped?

96blak54 · Apr 12, 2016

Just lap. The 5angle job may offer more flow, but in turn will kill what the port has been designed to do. Air flow acts weird when flowing over around through edges bumps & textures. Ford has maximized the seat shape already. Im not saying the 5angle wont offer more flow to an already awesome flowing head, but how the air and fuel get mixed passing through the valve curtain and moving inside the cylinder is whats more important. This way combustion is stable while being on the brink of erratic. Keeping this in mind reduces the reason to advance ignition timing and focus more on auto ignition.

96blak54 · Apr 12, 2016

My suggestion, find the longest duration intake cams and the shortest duration exhaust cams. To a head that has exhaust flow capacity almost equal to the intake....have the exhaust open ABDC.

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 13, 2016

I've got ahold of some 204 duration Cobra intake cams and all the stock 4V exhaust cams are the same. Was going to advance the intake 12 degrees so they open straight up vs the retarded setting from the factory and the exhaust I think is retarded 1 or 2 degrees to achieve this. I'll let my guy know to just lap them then. Do you have any literature on this? I totally believe you but I'm the kind of person that needs pictures or a repair manual explanation if that makes sense. Also the guy doing the heads might want to take a gander at it. He's actually doing everything for free, I just need to ship and ship back. Yeah I know...

96blak54 · Apr 13, 2016

I do have literature! But specific to modulars it is not. All the literature I have come from hard research, library scouting, old literature pertaining to the importance of homogenized in cylinder mix and motion stresses reduction of preignition and detonation. Fluide dynamics. Airflow pattern research.... I totally get what youre stating about hard evidence. I take that you find this new info different from the normal? Normal being...port, polish, reshape, high 11.1. compression(if 11.1 is high compression, boy am I in trouble)

A good friend taught me alot about engine power possibilities. What works, why it works, failures brings new learning opportunities. Things are not always what they seem when it comes to airflow. The smooth straight path doesnt mean the best path. Most focus on flow, flow, flow but realize they cant obtain more power. Like navigator heads on top of a 4.6l should rev to the moon, but it wont. Yes flow is "part" of the equation. Its not the single most important part. The good friend also was a drag racer that propelled a 67vw bug n/a in low 9's consistently. I thought he spoke chinglish for the longest time untill I educated myself.

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 13, 2016

I actually am planning on running 10.5 or 11: 1 with the supercharger. Not sure how much the flow characteristics will change with the Novi stuffing all that air into the cylinders. I'll msg the machinist and see what he wants to do. Here's also hoping the valve guides are still good, he is going to check them. I am trying to re-use as much as possible. I also found a WAP block that was on the dyno for one session in a motor before being torn down. So basically fresh .020 over ready to go for $350 obo about 2 hours from me. I may look into that and sell one Teksid, keep one as a spare/future buildup and just throw the WAP together. I know its not as strong... but I'm probably going to go with the Boss rods over MMR and then a cast crank and Manley Street fighters so I don't see myself ever needing more than a WAP for this particular build and I think the WAP itself has a bad rap from nothing more than internet speculation TBTH.

ScottyDsntKnow · Apr 13, 2016

Got info back on that WAP block. Used for only a few pulls on a dyno and it is an original Mach 1 block from a 2003 car. Motor was shut down when the oil pump failed and some components had to be rebuilt, but block is completely good (so he claims and the pics look good). It is .020 over and align honed and basically ready to go after some simple green and elbow grease and 2 hours from my house. Guy wants $350 OBO.

ScottyDsntKnow · May 6, 2016

So enough ppl called me an idiot for me to listen. Picked up a pair of 99/01 C heads, valve covers, cop covers and 4V cops for $100 locally. They need a deep cleaning and probably going to get them decked (or ghetto DIY deck them myself) but can't argue with the price. I needed the valve covers and COP covers anyway and they came with cams too.

I have a line on a real clean Mach intake manifold to go with. And the 96-98 Cobra cams I have 2 sets of now. So low end is taken care of hopefully.

Also found this motor locally with a rod knock (crank survived) for $350 so once I sell that intake and Teksid and other misc parts that will be a free forged crank.

And I also found the original owner of that WAP block and confirmed the work done and got receipts and everything from him. Got it for $300. .020 over, torque plate bored, line honed and ready to go.

Its the one on the left obviously.

I am selling that Teksid and a complete Mark VIII motor I got for free tomorrow for $700 and that will make me cost neutral before even parting out that clean Cobra motor on the pallet. I may have found a side hobby flipping modular parts... they are abundant around here.

96blak54 · May 6, 2016

An idiot? Why...cause youre not trying to swing a bigger peter? You my friend have discovered the true nature of this hobby! Hotroding at its best! Enjoy building over and over and not worry about fundings to complete the project. 95% of the fun is enjoying the build. Notice how much knowledge you are gaining from this. Wrench away only to gain more. Welcome to the club!

A buddy just picked up an sn95 and he talks about high expectation builds that will need fundings only dreams are made of. My suggestion, rebuild and do some logical improvements. Itll be back on the road before you know and itll be fun!

ScottyDsntKnow · May 6, 2016

Lol well I'm still going with the C heads most likely. The B heads are cleaner for sure but the Cs will clean right up and no worrying about secondary ports gunking up or anything. Like I said I needed the valve covers and COP covers anyway. Selling B heads is damn near impossible tho... I may put those ones I had shipped on CL for $400 with cams included and see if anyone bites. Did not expect to get a free set in a $350 motor locally...

ScottyDsntKnow · May 20, 2016

Pulling apart that Cobra motor... Primary IMRCs nice and clean... secondaries... yeah... wow. Glad I'm going Cs just for this reason. Picked up a 42k mile running 2000 Continental motor last week, going to pull it apart this weekend and leak check the heads with penetrating oil. If they pass I'm going to mark the valves, take them to work, put them and the castings in our ultrasonic cleaner and re-assemble with Brian Tooley springs. Voila, mint C heads for free since I've already got the internals and crank of that motor sold for the $200 I paid for the whole engine. Also free valve covers, cop covers and 4V COPs too lol.

Sold both 96-98 Cobra intakes and have a real clean 2004 Mach 1 intake manifold on the way for a $200 net profit there. Still need to find a buyer for this pile of B heads I have... I may just scrap them as they are only worth $50 each.

96blak54 · May 20, 2016

Now, im gonna defend the B heads here! The only reason those 2nd ports get gunked up is from residual oil getting drawn in from valve covers by the pcv hose. Ive seen some nasty 2v intake ports and intakes as well. Heck ive got a truck intake laying around with I know of about a cup of oil sloshing around the bottom. These engines are desperate need of oil separators from the factory.

ScottyDsntKnow · May 20, 2016

Lol yeah I know. I'm running a catch can regardless. I know the B heads get a bad rap. Yeah even the 99/01 C heads will make more power at every RPM level but it seems like people equate that with the B heads being shitty, not the case. Plenty of boosted B headed cars making a metric assload of power. I just was able to get the C heads for free and all the supporting stuff to run them as well as a real clean Mach intake. I actually save money also not having to buy delete plates or rig something together with JB weld on the stok IMRCs. Might as well go with the better heads while its apart...

And this is yet another reason I am going 4V. Free heads that outflow TFS heads, even ported ones. Free cams too that will support a ton of power. People say building a 4V is expensive... I guess so if you have to have the DC 8 thread omg hand carved by jesus revised heads and aftermarket cams and parts with SVT or Cobra stamped all over them. So far I'm net profit and have 42k mile C heads, forged OEM crank, 2 sets of 96-98 cams and 1 set of 99 cams, Mach intake, ready to go WAP block, 2 sets of COP valve covers, 2 sets of COP covers, a stock bore Teksid in great shape, 2 cast cranks, good set of C cores, 2 sets of F6ZE Cobra B heads, 24 COPs, 2 coil packs, poly motor mounts, FRPP shorties, stock 4V manifolds and a shitload of other misc parts. I'm hoping to get $2k+ out of the huge pile of parts I've got accumulated which will pay for rods, pistons, fuel system and small parts. Rest will have to be scraped together somewhere or flip more parts. I do still have my 2V stuff to sell that's still on the car.

96blak54 · May 21, 2016

I like what youre doing here! However, I would haved LOVED for you to push forward with the B heads. Although I dont blame you switching to C heads just because of parts selection and C port support.

Its not to late! You can still be the underdog that will impress the masses with your lame B heads

ScottyDsntKnow · May 21, 2016

Lol nah I sold my last 96-98 Cobra intake. Not that I couldn't find another. I could probably sell the C heads, Cobra 202 duration cams and Mach intake as a combo for a solid $800 if I wanted and go econo B heads and a Mark intake. I'm not a fan of any Cobra logos on a non Cobra car TBTH. Although that Cobra plaque comes off easy enough and I have a laser etcher at work. I had a 95 Cobra and got SO sick of being asked if it was real because of all the clones or idiots putting snakes on V6s. I dunno if the throttle cables and brackets on the Mark intake work with a Mustang. I'd have to assume the cable is close and with boost it wouldn't matter if the Mark intake didn't flow as well. Something to kick around I guess especially because I'm going to want to find a cheap 96-98 convertible with a blown up engine/trans/both after I get done with this one as a daily.

ScottyDsntKnow · May 23, 2016

Intercooler came in today. Really cool of CX Racing to let me exhange the 3" core for a 4" core plus $80 shipped.

Much bigger. Mr Sawzall is going to be saying hello to Mr Crashbar.

ScottyDsntKnow · May 26, 2016

And now I was able to find an adapter plate to mount a manual trans to a FWD Conti block so... I think I'm just going to drop this now free motor into my car and run it for a year or two at 450hp while I build up a 700hp motor and trans and fuel system on the side. I'm sick and damn tired of it sitting.

Also going to get more of these plates made before I install it. For possible future use since a Conti motor is literally a 99/01 Cobra motor just with a FWD bolt pattern on the bell.