Pro-M PIH harness

[RichV]

So after doing some research and on-track testing, we're finding out that SN 5.0 computers cannot adapt very well to mods due to their VE (volumetric efficiency) strategy and using the MAF to calculate loading does not work very well on a road course. I admit, you guys are right on the tuning. Coming from the Fox world, tuning is just not necessary for such minor mods.

So I've been debating swapping to a A9 Fox ECU. I can do the re-pin thing or Pro-M used to make a PIH harness which adapts the Fox ECU to the SN. Cool thing about the PIH is that it's plug/play. It already has a fan controller and a BAP sensor in the harness. My question is, what's a fair price to pay for it? They are very hard to find, I've been looking at old ads and trying to contact people if they have been sold. Some include the A9, some do not, but they're all in the $300+ arena.

Before you say 'tune...', I cannot. My class rules specificaly prohibit any chips or tuning of the factory ECU. But, can back or forward date the ECU.

And if anyone has one of these harnesses, LET ME KNOW!!!

 

[RichV]

Oh, and would a SN Cobra ECU be better? My understanding is it still uses the same strategy, but my GT40 top end is the same as a stock Cobra, but I do have a E303 and a full exhaust.

 

[chris91]

I say the a9l will suit your needs just fine. I had the PIH with the a9l setup for my 94 and with all the bolt ons and small cam it ran great. You might want to contact its new owner and see if he'd want to sell it. He's on here under the name Iceman. Last time I heard the car went under major changes so he might have ditched the setup. It came with a REALLY nice fan controller too.

 

[FrankenStang]

depending on the motor, say if he has 24lb injectors on it and the gt40 setup, wouldnt he then want the cobra computer to better match his setup since he cant custom tune it..?

 

[chris91]

Really no need for 24lb injectors with a GT40 setup unless you have done serious port work to them. 19lb injectors will be fine up to 300hp.

 

[Musturd]

The cobras come factory with 24's on there gt40 setups. I'm surprised your not tuned currently with a cam and heads and stuff. Alot of fox guys I know are running sn95 computers now. The money and time ur spending doing this i would have just had the car tuned. My buddies 401 stroker twin turbo fox runs a 94/95 auto computer. IMO after tuning these turds a bunch I wouldn't go backwards in technology,I know you feel like you don't really need a tune it will help out drastically though with driveability, does ur car have a wide band and your just going off the gauge? I know guys running 120lb injectors on 94/95 computers so I never understood why people complain about them.

 

[ivan12]

He CAN'T get it tuned because of his class rules. He does have the option of going with a older/newer CPU though. I'd try to give the cobra ECU a shot since you pretty much have the cobra setup minus the cam.

 

[rz5.0]

I would also give the cobra ecu a try.but it is set up for 24´s..

 

[FrankenStang]

no way are 19's good for 300 hp....NO WAYY..24's are good to 330 hp at 85% duty cycle, and if you run your injector above 85% for more than a 20 seconds...kiss them injectors good by and risk running lean and doing even worse damage....

and if the cobra computer is set for 24's, larger mafs, and better heads n shit, why not match them and have a fake cobra engine running correctly off of factory settings even..and 24lb injector are so cheap now anyways, why not do it and also be able to run a better fuel too...a

also if the ecu is set of a certain injector keep it at that...lol dont throw 19's ona 24lb tune, or that engine will be toast in no time...ping a ling !

 

[chris91]

Read here bud.

http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=38

Then go read over on corral at all the guys putting down 300-315 on them. All that's needed to get them that high is bumping the fuel pressure to 40-44. A simple gt40 setup is not going to max out a set of 19lb injectors. There is no reason to upgrade injectors when its not needed. Injectors don't create power, they allow it.

 

[OnyxCobra]

what minor mods is your computer having trouble adapting to? The only thing that should really give you trouble would be a cam.

 

[RichV]

I would tune in a heartbeat if I had the option. But the tuning is so obvious with the piggi chip I'd get popped in a second.

The Cobra ECU just has me concerned that I'll still have the stupid VE strategy that will be altered because of the cam. My car does not run bad currently, just not as strong as it should because the computer is not being agressive with timing apparently to save the T5 trannys. Total HP/Tq should be similar but powering out of corners is just not as crisp as the Fox was.

 

[RichV]

what minor mods is your computer having trouble adapting to? The only thing that should really give you trouble would be a cam.

I have the E303. And it does not run bad, total power is not an issue. It's more not having the power on tap when you get on the throttle at any given RPM/gear.

 

[rz5.0]

The cobra has a better spark tables

 

[FrankenStang]

if 24's arnt needed and 19's are why would ford sepnd the extra money putting and installing 24's into the cobra motors as well as the 4.6 dohc that only put down 305 to the wheels? lol i wouldnt trust that chart form that site you just posted....because once again it doesnt talk about A. what pressure ur running the injectors at and if its return or returnless style and B. it doesnt mention the duty cycle at which they handle those numbers, and yes....those are the MAX numbers for injectors at 100% duty cycle.....show me ONE car that runs its injectors at anything above 90% at wide open throttle...

and he MAY be able to get by on 19's depending on what fuel pressure hes running, if its stock fuelpressure then NO, not safely...

 

[RichV]

19s are just fine for my setup. 24s may be safer if I go back down to altitude.

When the ECU goes openloop, what duty cycle are the injectors at? (at WOT)

 

[chris91]

if 24's arnt needed and 19's are why would ford sepnd the extra money putting and installing 24's into the cobra motors as well as the 4.6 dohc that only put down 305 to the wheels? lol i wouldnt trust that chart form that site you just posted....because once again it doesnt talk about A. what pressure ur running the injectors at and if its return or returnless style and B. it doesnt mention the duty cycle at which they handle those numbers, and yes....those are the MAX numbers for injectors at 100% duty cycle.....show me ONE car that runs its injectors at anything above 90% at wide open throttle...

and he MAY be able to get by on 19's depending on what fuel pressure hes running, if its stock fuelpressure then NO, not safely...

Sorry to clog up your thread here Rich.

You're obviously not understanding something... He is running GT40 heads here, not Aluminum heads and hes not going to be close to 300hp to the wheels. He is perfectly fine with 19lb injectors. GT40 setups are lucky to see 250hp to the rear wheels in stock form. Honestly I have no idea why Ford put 24lb injectors in the Cobras. First, the 93 Cobra puts out a measly 235hp to the crank. Second, the 32valve Cobra does NOT put down 305 to the wheels, that is to the CRANK. Clearly neither car NEEDS 24lb injectors in stock form. And like I said, believe me or not, go read up on Corral. There have been COUNTLESS people putting down 300-320 TO THE WHEELS running 19lb injectors drag racing their cars every weekend beating the snot outta em. Is it the safest option, no but its been done many times and will be done many more. But like said, hes perfectly fine with the injectors hes running for what mods he has. Now if he planned on adding more mods in the future(guessing he isn't to stay in a certain class) then there would be reason to upgrade to bigger injectors.

 

[OnyxCobra]

a cam isn't a minor mod, and without a tune i'm not surprised you have a large drop in torque. if you still have the stock heads you're probably doing more harm than good running that cam, i'd put the stock one back in given the circumstances.

 

[Musturd]

He's got gt 40 heads so that cams fine

 

[rz5.0]

At 85% duty cycle
19lb/hr = 258hp N/A*
24lb/hr = 326hp N/A*
30lb/hr = 408hp N/A*
32lb/hr = 435hp N/A
39lb/hr = 530hp N/A
47lb/hr = 639hp N/A
60lb/hr = 816hp N/A
80lb/hr = 1088hp N/A
The following is using the 19lb injector in the calcuation*max safe hp = [ (inj size) X (total # of inj) X (max duty cycle) ]/BSFC