quick pointers/suggestions

aarons_4six · May 19, 2010

practically stock 96 gt. has a cai(guessing an ebay unit) some weld in bullet style mufflers when i bought it last month. i bought the energy suspension engine/tranny mounts(stockers are worn) yet to put em on, an eibach rear sway bar bc the stocker was missing, eibach springs and a steeda tri ax shifter; all of this sitting waiting to be put on.

are the bbk tuned length headers better than long tubes, i know the lt's are a pita install from what i read. i also get mixed feelings on where the power is with lt's and shorties. can someone clarify?

anyone run the upr o/r pipes? if so how do you like the fit and finish?

are 4.10's too high for interstate driving? its not a dd but i will travel to somewhat local shows, i was dead set on 3.73's bc my dad had those in his 95, again from what i read the pushrod engines need less gear/ mod engines need more and at least a 4.10. also will a 4.10 be too high for a centrifugal blower? i found a vortech v1 local CHEAP!!!

my questions are pretty simple, id like a low 12 sec street car. so with that in mind lemme have it:

Lee12609 · May 20, 2010

Low 12 street car?

Anyhow, no Shorty is really worth the effort. 4.10 or 3.73 not much difference like 200-300 rpm cruising. I'd go 4.30s

I run a upr o/r x, fit great.

good luck....

94califiveoh · May 20, 2010

Whats your budget. A budget figure will ultimately determine if low 12's are achievable.

aarons_4six · May 20, 2010

budget?? nothing set in stone, it doesnt need to run all out tom. but the master plan is 12's . . . in time of course. theres no sense setting a schedule for a build of any sort bc thinga always happen, so when it happens great, till then ill accumulate parts!

and 4.10's are the highest ill run, i think theyre going to be more than i want but its what ive read respond the best

Lee12609 · May 20, 2010

you plan on boost or n/a?

If boost just grab a PI longblock and throw a vortech on with bolt ons and gears.

N/A do MHS cams and heads pi intake, gears and bolt ons.

Either one with good suspension and tires will be a good start.

Other than those options you are basically talking about just doing bolt ons which wont make much difference at all.

aarons_4six · May 20, 2010

i found a vortech locally for 1200, non intercooled so its probably a low boost kit (6# i guess). but before i can really start spending big amounts i need to sell 1 of my quads.

i dont think the pi swap is for me. no offense for those who have done this, and maybe ill be wrong in my thinking. but i feel to spend 800 on new heads, i may as well just get some ported from whatever company i deem is best. now ive read the npi heads ported are just as good as stock pi? also why do the intake manifolds say to be used only on pi heads? port size perhaps? if so on ported npi heads it should be ok

duff daddy · May 20, 2010

aarons_4six said:
i dont think the pi swap is for me. no offense for those who have done this, and maybe ill be wrong in my thinking. but i feel to spend 800 on new heads, i may as well just get some ported from whatever company i deem is best. now ive read the npi heads ported are just as good as stock pi? also why do the intake manifolds say to be used only on pi heads? port size perhaps? if so on ported npi heads it should be ok

1) you can get stock pi heads for wayyyyyy under 500 fairly often....
2) you can port the npi's which will be cool but you still should swap to the pi manifold and just block off the portion of gasket not used.
3) you want a mid 12 car, get some a good manifold on there and toss some spray on there (bottlefed) has done this and is low 12's. I have pi heads with cams and run a 12.6 na so decide if you want na or fi set up and go from there...

aarons_4six · May 20, 2010

correct me if im wrong, swapping to pi heads raises the compression to 10:1+. if this is the case boost is out the question, as far as i feel safe of course.

now for nitrous its a special plate type setup, have heard good and bad about nitrous setups on these engines. but i know nothing about nitrous besides the basics from the kits my quad drag buddies run.

Lee12609 · May 20, 2010

here is my thoughts on the head situation.

port NPI heads $800+
stock used PI's $300+
ported PI's $1200+
aftermarket $1800+

just guessing on alot of those but cant be far off.

ported npi heads will then be maxed out and still BARELY outflow stock PI heads
stock PI heads are VERY cheap, room to grow, but raise compression some which most people feel is horrible for boost
ported PI's good bang for buck if in the budget, good gains, still high compression if boosted
aftermarket (trickflow) great bang for the buck, room to grow, choose combustion chamber size for compression

this is the reason i tend to tell EVERYONE interested in making power with boost to either stay stock npi with PI cams and intake for 350whp or less.
swap in a PI longblock and do the same for 400whp and under.
built shorblock with PI heads for 500whp and under
built shortblock with worked PI heads and lumpy cams for 600+....
these are the BASIC starting points for each power level, of coarse more will be needed, but those are the main components to give you an idea of power level limits in each application. PI intake manifold is good enough for all but the EXTREME applications. you can make 400+whp with stock PI cams so no need to worry about them in my opinion until after 450whp (other cams WILL give you power gains even stock, but i'm a do more with less person and only change whats needed to meet your goal).

nitrous and high compression get along well, these motors handle nitrous about as well as the pushrod 5.0s, 125-150 MAX i'd recommend on a stock shortblock, and thats pushing it...... the manifolds cant withstand ANY backfires though.

you just need to figure out a direction and goal, and start collecting parts.

aarons_4six · May 20, 2010

i agree 100%, what are the stock bottom ends good to?

Lee12609 · May 20, 2010

450whp or so on a dynojet is what MOST people consider "on the edge" with a stock shortblock, with a good tune plenty of people are pushing this without an issue, but i'd be more comfortable at 425.. of coarse on a mustang dyno or other load bearing i'd drop those numbers a little, but i'm conservative.

aarons_4six · May 20, 2010

yeah id rather stay on the cautious side, kinda like a throttle stop on a drag car. just cuz you have it dorsnt mean you need to use it.

so maybe i should try and find a pi shortblock/complete engine and have it filled with forged internals just in case. theres a member on here with a stroker 5.0 hes been listing on craigslist. it was boosted and ive been kinda eyeing it up.

Naptown_Stang · May 21, 2010

Id say 3.73s

Lee12609 said:
here is my thoughts on the head situation.

port NPI heads $800+
stock used PI's $300+
ported PI's $1200+
aftermarket $1800+

just guessing on alot of those but cant be far off.

ported npi heads will then be maxed out and still BARELY outflow stock PI heads
stock PI heads are VERY cheap, room to grow, but raise compression some which most people feel is horrible for boost
ported PI's good bang for buck if in the budget, good gains, still high compression if boosted
aftermarket (trickflow) great bang for the buck, room to grow, choose combustion chamber size for compression

this is the reason i tend to tell EVERYONE interested in making power with boost to either stay stock npi with PI cams and intake for 350whp or less.
swap in a PI longblock and do the same for 400whp and under.
built shorblock with PI heads for 500whp and under
built shortblock with worked PI heads and lumpy cams for 600+....
these are the BASIC starting points for each power level, of coarse more will be needed, but those are the main components to give you an idea of power level limits in each application. PI intake manifold is good enough for all but the EXTREME applications. you can make 400+whp with stock PI cams so no need to worry about them in my opinion until after 450whp (other cams WILL give you power gains even stock, but i'm a do more with less person and only change whats needed to meet your goal).

nitrous and high compression get along well, these motors handle nitrous about as well as the pushrod 5.0s, 125-150 MAX i'd recommend on a stock shortblock, and thats pushing it...... the manifolds cant withstand ANY backfires though.

you just need to figure out a direction and goal, and start collecting parts.

ported NPI's

Lee12609 · May 21, 2010

ported npi's are a good choice for anyone keeping a stock shortblock. They will support more power than the shortblock can handle.

Once you build a bottom end no point in limiting yourself with npi stuff though.

For a street car 3.73 is the basis for seat of the pants feel while keeping mpg in mind but if you are more performance oriented go 4.10 or better 4.30s....

duff daddy · May 22, 2010

dont fear the gear, im rocking 488's or higher this year possibly

aarons_4six · May 22, 2010

my dad had a 95 with 3.73's, he seems to think im not going to like the 4.10's, he thinks 1st gear will be unusable and its gonna rev to high on the interstate. so i really am unsure. i was dead set on them until we talked the other night. how bad could it drone on the interstate? ill have an o/r pipe soon and have what i think is dynomaxbbullets on there now.

Lee12609 · May 22, 2010

i run dynomax mufflers, drone isnt bad at all compared to chambered mufflers, but mine are dumped too.

the RPM difference on the interstate is only about 200rpm between 4.10 and 3.73s, but the acceleration difference is quite a bit.

first gear even with stock gears is useless once you have any amount of power anyways (unless you have good tires and suspension). my car is an auto with a vortech and stock 3.08s (for now) and i've had to learn to ease into it through first, you'll learn the edge of traction real quick....