"There are no long tubes"

Mr. OAM

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
785
Reaction score
0
The title is used much in the same way as the kid in the movie "The Matrix" says "There is no spoon."

Since I am among the few old farts here and everyone only knows the world they grew up in I thought I would give a small history lesson on headers and why we always recommend "long tubes", as the younger crowd calls them, and why that term annoys us old farts. :crazy2:

First, a comparison. Ford came out with their 400 cubic inch engine. This looks the same as a 351 Cleveland except it has a taller deck height and a longer stroke. The heads also had smaller valves than the Cleveland. About this time emissions laws was making the Cleveland engine out of compliance with regulations so they put a shorter stroke crank into the 400 block and called it the 351M. There would be a sticker on both engines, 351M and 400, denoting the engine family they were from. Somewhere along the line the 400 started to be called a 400M. Ford never made a 400M, just the 400 and a destroked version they called the 351M, yet you can read someone refering to it as a 400M everyday. This is just plain wrong. To go a little further, everyone says the "M" stands for Modified, but Ford has never documented this or had this designation for the M. At minimum it was used to differentiate it from the 351C and 351W.

So what's that got to do with headers? You'll see in the next paragraphs.

In the begining of performance driving/racing grease monkeys and engineers were experimenting with all kinds of ways to make an engine make more power. Somewhere along the line the scavenging affect of headers instead of cast manifolds was discovered to increase engine performance. Ultimately they became an automatic change to an engine if you were going racing, hotrodding, or setting a land speed record. This became common knowldege. These headers looked like you see in the pictures below.

sprintsmall.jpg


race_car1-2.jpg


1205077195060765039S500x500Q85.jpg



The only exception to headers was the Tri-Y headers that made more low end torque on the street due to their configuration helping out with exhaust pulse timing from the same head. Then there came one other "twist" on headers, the "block huggers". These were designed for cars where there just was no room for headers and the engine was built for performance. Here's what they looked like.

chevy350-320.JPG


They were better than exhaust manifolds but were not real "headers", but what are you going to do?



In 1985 Ford came out with "Factory Headers" on the Mustang GT. This was a tubular exhaust manifold rather than a cast exhaust manifold, but it was a header design in it's principle. It was a great way to market the car with Edlebrock intake and 4 barrel carb. The headers complete the package. By designing the headers to this short style they were easier to install on the assembly line than real headers would be and they could still call them "headers." After a while people that owned these cars would be talking with others car owners and the subject of how their car was modified would come up. When the subject of headers came up they would say that their car had headers, but people knew that the car came with a tubular exhaust manifold from the factory and they were questioned if that was what they were talking about or did they have real headers on it? "Shorties" would have to be the reply. It would be acknowledged that it was better than cast manifolds, but still was not built for serious performance.

As time went on newer guys getting into the hobby wanted their Mustangs that didn't come with factory headers to have them. An aftermarket sprang up to provide them. They were also easier than real headers to install and someone with limited ability could swap them out easy enough. Because of this it seems not much was learned about real headers since they already had "shorty" headers.



So there are no "long tubes." There's headers and there's tubular exhaust manifolds.


Steve
 

AaRoN

King Post Whore
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
33,968
Reaction score
50
Location
Orlando, Florida, United States
What's in a name?

Seriously though, what you have stated above is what I grew up thinking. Until, I got a Mustang. Then all of a sudden I hear and read about "shorties". I grew up around "old school" muscle. So there were only 1 type of header (what we now call "Longtubes"). If someone said that their car/truck had headers, I pictured LT's.
 

94Pro-5.0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
3,390
Reaction score
1
Location
Little Elm, TX
Mr. OAM said:
First, a comparison. Ford came out with their 400 cubic inch engine. This looks the same as a 351 Cleveland except it has a taller deck height and a longer stroke. The heads also had smaller valves than the Cleveland. About this time emissions laws was making the Cleveland engine out of compliance with regulations so they put a shorter stroke crank into the 400 block and called it the 351M. There would be a sticker on both engines, 351M and 400, denoting the engine family they were from. Somewhere along the line the 400 started to be called a 400M. Ford never made a 400M, just the 400 and a destroked version they called the 351M, yet you can read someone refering to it as a 400M everyday. This is just plain wrong. To go a little further, everyone says the "M" stands for Modified, but Ford has never documented this or had this designation for the M. At minimum it was used to differentiate it from the 351C and 351W.


i'm not an old fart, and dont care too much about the header thing, but the 351m, 400m, 400 and 351c debate always has pissed me off. It was a lot harder to buy parts for my 69 351w mach 1. i hated having to explain that whole M,C,W thing to everyone who sold me parts.
 

realitygt

Legend
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
5,228
Reaction score
0
AaRoN said:
What's in a name?

Seriously though, what you have stated above is what I grew up thinking. Until, I got a Mustang. Then all of a sudden I hear and read about "shorties". I grew up around "old school" muscle. So there were only 1 type of header (what we now call "Longtubes"). If someone said that their car/truck had headers, I pictured LT's.

when i got on here it took me forever to figure out what shorties and longtubes were. cause i only knew of headers (lt's) too.
 
OP
OP
M

Mr. OAM

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
785
Reaction score
0
AaRoN said:
What's in a name?

Seriously though, what you have stated above is what I grew up thinking. Until, I got a Mustang. Then all of a sudden I hear and read about "shorties". I grew up around "old school" muscle. So there were only 1 type of header (what we now call "Longtubes"). If someone said that their car/truck had headers, I pictured LT's.


Just to poke at you a little, in fun of course, I've got almost 20 years on you (holy crap!), so "old school" is pretty relative. An example, my nephew (about 21 at the time) told me a couple years ago he wanted to get an "old" Monte Carlo. I said "Oh, like a '72 or something?" He said "No, '96." :crazy2: Sigh....give me the day of carburetors.

What's in a name? Well, for me, when someone says their putting shorties on their car they are talking, and equating performance to, headers. I am talking tubular exhaust manifold. It's like how people say nos. N-O-S is the name of Nitrous Oxide Systems, just the same as Ford. What their talking about is is referred to as nitrous, nitrous oxide, or N2O.

Hey dude! What are you going to put on your engine?

I'm going to put Edelbrock on it, man!

That's what I hear when people say or type nos. Sounds stupid, eh? :hammer:





"i'm not an old fart, and dont care too much about the header thing, but the 351m, 400m, 400 and 351c debate always has pissed me off. It was a lot harder to buy parts for my 69 351w mach 1. i hated having to explain that whole M,C,W thing to everyone who sold me parts."


I feel your pain.




Steve
 

OnyxCobra

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,794
Reaction score
237
Location
Rochester, NY
so you're saying all shorty headers are tubular exhaust manifolds? makes sense i reckon.


what if they really are putting NOS on their car though, then they make sense.
 

AaRoN

King Post Whore
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
33,968
Reaction score
50
Location
Orlando, Florida, United States
Mr. OAM said:
AaRoN said:
What's in a name?

Seriously though, what you have stated above is what I grew up thinking. Until, I got a Mustang. Then all of a sudden I hear and read about "shorties". I grew up around "old school" muscle. So there were only 1 type of header (what we now call "Longtubes"). If someone said that their car/truck had headers, I pictured LT's.


Just to poke at you a little, in fun of course, I've got almost 20 years on you (holy crap!), so "old school" is pretty relative. An example, my nephew (about 21 at the time) told me a couple years ago he wanted to get an "old" Monte Carlo. I said "Oh, like a '72 or something?" He said "No, '96." :crazy2: Sigh....give me the day of carburetors.

What's in a name? Well, for me, when someone says their putting shorties on their car they are talking, and equating performance to, headers. I am talking tubular exhaust manifold. It's like how people say nos. N-O-S is the name of Nitrous Oxide Systems, just the same as Ford. What their talking about is is referred to as nitrous, nitrous oxide, or N2O.

Hey dude! What are you going to put on your engine?

I'm going to put Edelbrock on it, man!

That's what I hear when people say or type nos. Sounds stupid, eh? :hammer:





"i'm not an old fart, and dont care too much about the header thing, but the 351m, 400m, 400 and 351c debate always has pissed me off. It was a lot harder to buy parts for my 69 351w mach 1. i hated having to explain that whole M,C,W thing to everyone who sold me parts."


I feel your pain.




Steve

lol...no offense taken Steve. By "old school", I actually mean "old school". REAL muscle cars. They've always been my favorites. That's what I grew up around.
 

trav_19

Legend
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
5,615
Reaction score
0
lol i know what your saying steve...and the old car thing cracks me up to....my cousin is exactly the same!!!! i may not be old in age but i was a only child that grew up around my dad and uncles so "old" muscle cars are what i grew up on....and to come to think about it my fiance is the same way lol...i have always talked about getting a 80's monte carlo or regal to build up and she thinks those are pre-historic :hammer: ....
 

TxCobrA98

Legend
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
7,976
Reaction score
6
i love old muscle cars too, them 94 5.0 mustangs and cobras. man them things are old school. :p

kidding, old school is back when the horsepower wars were on and the companies didn't care about gas mileage, they wanted to have street supremacy. i often wished i could have grown up back then from the stories my dad tells me.

and i learned something today. so, i have "long tubes" (as i guess i would call them) in my garage.. so really, i have "headers" sitting in my garage. if i had "shorties", they would be "tubular exhaust manifolds"?

nice write-up steve. i enjoy reading your facts from the past and learning these new things. its pretty interesting to me. :thumb: :thumb:
 

trav_19

Legend
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
5,615
Reaction score
0
they make long tubes for cobras.. i thought they only offered mid lenght... lol...now steve you have shorty..mid lenght and long tubes lol... :dunno:
 

TxCobrA98

Legend
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
7,976
Reaction score
6
yeah that is one thing that bugs me, the NOS thing. lol its "NITROUS" not NAWZZZZZ
 

kyle94gt

Active Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
764
Reaction score
1
[TxCobrA98 said:
]
yeah that is one thing that bugs me, the NOS thing. lol its "NITROUS" not NAWZZZZZ

YOu can thank these :trollarse: 's for that terminology. Damn that aggravates me too... "I'ma hit the nawwws" :gtfo:

nosjunkie_highlight.gif
fast_and_the_furious_nos.jpg
naws.jpg
 

Dalamar

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
13,863
Reaction score
124
Location
SLC, UT
interesing history lesson!
Shortys FTW!


I found the 351M info very interesting. I have one, but havn't tore into it yet.
the guy I got it from said the M was from the block being built in Mexico. LOL!
it needs a full rebuild, nother project vehical, but I'm not ripping until the 67 is done.
 
OP
OP
M

Mr. OAM

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
785
Reaction score
0
I finally got back here. Been busy.


what if they really are putting NOS on their car though, then they make sense.

Yeah, that would be true if "naws" was not used so much to mean nitrous. I know Zex and a few other systems have gained inpopularity too.



lol...no offense taken Steve. By "old school", I actually mean "old school". REAL muscle cars. They've always been my favorites. That's what I grew up around.

Ah, ok. Well that's really cool. I like to see the younger guys appreciate the cars that were involved in the original musclecar wars.



i often wished i could have grown up back then from the stories my dad tells me.

A lot of guys that are into cars seem to prefer their father's era of cars. :thumb:



so really, i have "headers" sitting in my garage. if i had "shorties", they would be "tubular exhaust manifolds"?

That's what I am saying, but I am sure there are those that will argue this point. If it wasn't for Ford attempting to recapture the original fervor of the Mustang's popularity in 1985 we might still not have "shorties. BTW, I was looking through a 1982 or 1983 car magazine last night and saw an advertisement for the return of the "BOSS" Mustang advertisement, a two pager. It wasn't an ad for a Boss Mustang, just the car that had such legend, a performance Mustang.



nice write-up steve. i enjoy reading your facts from the past and learning these new things. its pretty interesting to me.

Thanks. I figured some people would enjoy something like this.



i thought they only offered mid lenght... lol...now steve you have shorty..mid length and long tubes lol...

Just because there is a short bed on the back of an Explorer Sport Trac doesn't make it a pick-up truck. ;)



Yes, The Fast and the Furious messed up a lot of things in the hobby.



But do you call it kleenex or facial tissues? Same thing


Nope. "Kleenex" is a name brand that dominated the facial tissue market and thus most facial tissue is referred to as kleenex, kind of like when you "xerox" a copy. Hooker was a brand that dominated the header market but we don't refer to all headers and Hookers. What you are comparing is facial tissue to a square of toilet paper, in order to apply the example to header design; headers vs. tubular exhaust. :coolsmiley:



The M never stood for Mexico and the blocks were not cast in Mexico. Some say the M stood for Midland, the city where they were supposedly cast but I have not researched that yet.


Steve
 

Steven

Legend
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
8,177
Reaction score
119
Location
SC
The issue being here steve, is that as time goes on, common terms, names, ideals, etc all change, and so does the car community. The introduction of a 'shorty' style header is just part of it, and far from it is the idea that its not performance oriented, however I do understand that it is by no means a longtube in performance gains. That is how it was back in the day, if you didnt run longtubes you ran stock manifolds, but in this day and age there are other ways to do things, so just because of past nicknames and common terms of parts from back in the day, that doesn't justifiably say that tubular exhaust manifolds is therefore the correct term for the day and age. It's all taken with a grain of salt, but headers and longtubes and shortys are all coined terms and ideas made up by the enthusiasts, so by no means are shortys an incorrect term today.
 

OnyxCobra

Post Whore
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
14,794
Reaction score
237
Location
Rochester, NY
I don't think it was so much the Fast and the Furious's fault as it was all the stupid ricers that was the result of it. In the movie they were using NOS brand nitrous, so saying NOS was accurate in the movie.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
77,655
Messages
1,506,587
Members
15,085
Latest member
Overused_03

Members online

Top