Widsor mismatch?

Discussion in '96-04 - 2V Specific' started by OLD H2S, Jul 4, 2015.

  1. OLD H2S

    OLD H2S Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    My '96 GT VIN says "X" in slot number 8, so it must be a Windsor? But the valve covers only have 11 bolts not 13 which would make it a Romeo, yes, no, you got a mess there OLD H2S.
     
  2. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    As far as I know, 95 was the last year of the Windsor. 96+ where all the mod motor. Not sure about the VIN with the X. You sure it doesn't mean something else?
     
  3. lutter94

    lutter94 Well-Known Member

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    The 4.6 L 2V has been built at both Romeo Engine Plant and Windsor Engine Plant, and the plants have different designs for main bearings, heads (cam caps: interconnected cam "cages" vs individual caps per cam journal), camshaft gears (bolt-on vs. press-on), valve covers (11 bolts vs. 13 bolts), crankshaft (6 bolts vs. 8 bolts), and cross bolt fasteners for main bearing caps.[5]

    From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine
     
  4. OLD H2S

    OLD H2S Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Well....I am getting my information from this web site, the sticky section with the info on different engine blocks, it is right above this post?
     
  5. Royal96

    Royal96 Active Member

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    OP, my 96 is also a vin X but certainly has a romeo motor in it
     
  6. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    The windsor name also applies to the mod motors also. .
     
  7. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    No, to my understanding, it does not. The mod motors may be made at the Windsor plant, sure, but they are *not* Windsor motors. Mod motors are specifically a different technology than the Windsors.

    Wiki article on the Windsors here. You'll notice the mod motors and anything afterwards are not included. I have several published books specifically on the Windsor that back this up as well.

    Of interest from that link if you don't want to go there:

    ^Two totally different engines.

    Now, maybe I read the OP wrong - I took it to mean a Windsor engine, NOT an engine made at the Windsor plant. He can quite possibly have a Mod motor made at the Windsor plant. But this does not make it a Windsor motor.
     
  8. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Like my previous reply - yes, the mod motor is also made at the Windsor plant, but is not a Windsor, like OP was asking. I was going off of this from the OP:



    ^That is incorrect. It is not a Windsor. If he had meant "so it must be made at the Windsor plant" then yes, that might be correct.
     
  9. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    You taking it the wrong way. . The 4.6 has two classifications winsor and romeo.. not that its part of the winsor sbf family.. alot of parts are specific to either the romeo or winsor..
     
  10. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Lets throw in the Teksid made by posche over in Italy. ...lol.
     
  11. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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  12. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    My mistake.
     
  13. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    It happens..
     
  14. blackdemon007

    blackdemon007 Active Member

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    OP: In case you need the clarification of all the info here. The 96-04 vins don't always follow the motor combination (especially with all the swaps out there).

    11 bolt valve covers equals romeo style heads, 13/14 bolt valve covers equals windsor style heads.
    Most likely everything on your engine is stock with romeo heads.
     
  15. Royal96

    Royal96 Active Member

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    Regardless of what could be swapped where and whatnot, I'm still confused the same as OP.
    Everything I've ever originally learned said all 96-98 had Romeo engines in them, 99-mid 01 had windsors, and late 01-04 had romeos again.
    It seems to be a common belief that X = Windsor and W = Romeo, and that all 96-98s should have a W as the 8th vin digit, and that only 99-mid 01s should have an 8th digit X.
    However, other sources state that, even in 96-98, "X" was the 8th digit to signify that it was a SOHC V8.
    Now I'm reading that W is basically NPI, while X is PI.
    NONE of this matches up with the fact that both OP and my own VIN's have an 8th digit X, but Romeo motors (as they apparently should).
    Now, I also read somewhere that they started making Modular motors in the Windsor plant in 96... but that may just be referring to the truck motors.

    OLD H2S, is your motor PI or NPI?
     
  16. lwarrior1016

    lwarrior1016 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

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    My 98 is vin code "x" and I can assure you, it was Romeo.
     
  17. OLD H2S

    OLD H2S Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    I am the original owner, and special ordered the car just the way I wanted it by going through the Ford order catalog, dealer thought I was nuts. When the car came it had a piece of paper in the glove box that said It was Saleen base car number 7!!! I threw the paper away.:cry:
    But no the car engine is stock and original.
     
  18. Royal96

    Royal96 Active Member

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    So what I'm learning from this thread is, maybe everyone's been mixed up all along and X = Romeo and W = Windsor? Because that sure would make a lot more sense anyways.
    Anyone with a 99-early 01 have an 8th digit W?
    Anyone with a 96-98 even have an 8th digit W?
     
  19. blackdemon007

    blackdemon007 Active Member

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    As stated previously, forget about the vin numbers - it seems to be a total cluster**** when it comes to the info on the internet out there.

    To answer the question: Being the original owner and motor, 11 bolt valve covers IS A ROMEO.
    PI motors weren't introduced until '99 - so NPI ROMEO is what you have my friend.
     
  20. OLD H2S

    OLD H2S Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Thank you all for helping me out, this is the nicest forum I have been on yet, and I have been on most for the last 12 years building a Marauder Terminator, nice ride but a little too much. Now The wife want to get rid of the '96 GT, I finally get to work on it after 20 years.