Schiffy
Well-Known Member
Venom351R said:
makes me wanna build mine, just don't have the money for it... :wall:
351 or stroker?
- Thread starter auto_x5.0
- Start date
makes me wanna build mine, just don't have the money for it... :wall:
ummm a 351w stroker is your answer!!! 4.030x4 = 408w you would not believe what those motors are capable of doing i love the 351 stroker line up from the 393 to the 427's they are all monsters and if your planning nitrous GET A STEEL CRANK cast is crap!! and if your getting serious get a dart block or something the factory blocks have limits and its not hard to reach them
Schiffy
Well-Known Member
tRaV_19 said:
But it's always fun when you do reach the limit, because it means you just made crazy HP :dancing6:
Stangbangin
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2006
- Messages
- 642
- Reaction score
- 0
tRaV_19 said:
Unless your revving past 7k rpms or putting out over 700 hp cast is fine. Forged anything is a waste of money. Believe me I have a fully forged bottom end now and its more for piece of mind.
Anrev said:
Is Edelbrock prommoting their heads as 3V? They are not described as such on their site. Perhaps some retailer is calling them that?
To make your Clevor you will have Cleveland heads on a Windsor block. Which manifold will you use? The Windsor block has a deck height of 9.500" and the Cleveland came with a 9.206" deck height. A strictly Cleveland intake will not work. Will you be using spacers? Where do you get those? They are available somewhere.
For the hassle of building the specialized Clevor (Additional block machining to alter water passages to accomodate the Cleveland heads) you can more easily build a killer 351W. The head and intake selection for them is great. This would also be a better route for someone new to engine building and you will be able to make just as much power as the Clevor, if not more. You will certainly have a smaller budget. You can also stroke the Windsor as well.
The Cleveland is a very different beast. Best bet to take advantage of the large valves is to stroke it to 377, 393, or 408". This enables the build of a more streetable engine. Guys are getting 480 - 500 streetable HP NA out of these engines, sometimes with the stock 4V heads, reworked of course. Others are getting over 600 HP built for the track, still NA and no nitrous.
Paul is right about the cast crank. If you are building a street engine with 500 HP you will still be ok. If it is a race engine that is going to see a major percentage of it's use at the track then I would go with at least a nodular iron crank. A friend is racing a 1970 Boss Mustang with a 351C he dropped into it (original engine is in the garage) that he launches and shifts at 7,000 RPM and last year went 10.9 in the 1/4 with a stock crank. The only thing he found was that he needed harder crank bearings instead of the typical tri-metal bearings made for the street where any contaminants can dig into the bearing and get out of the way of the crank. On the track these bearings got hammered out of shape.
Steve
The Edlebrocks are a copy of the Aussie Cleveland 3v heads. Meaning 2v style ports with quenched chambers like the 4v's. They advertise them as ready to go for clevor fans. Meaning already have the option built in in reguards to the water passage mods needed. They also sell the required spacer to adapt to a 302 manifold. They dont advertise them. But they do make them. I called and asked.
There is no block machining needed to make a clevor. Only modifying the water passages on the heads. And as I mentioned they already did that.
This is just a pipe dream engine. Something to do with Lotto winnings.... :hammer:
There is no block machining needed to make a clevor. Only modifying the water passages on the heads. And as I mentioned they already did that.
This is just a pipe dream engine. Something to do with Lotto winnings.... :hammer:
I couldn't remember which had to be modified, heads or block.
Those heads would be great for a stock stroke street engine. It would be a nice set-up and I know it is more popular now than previously.
For most people with bills though, or less engine building experience, I would recommend the 351W since there is a myriad of heads available and less cost because you don't need special parts ($$$$) to build one. You can also get the same amount of power for less money and headache, especially for the person that started this thread. If looking to be different then it would be a good project, if you've got the money. :thumb:
Steve
Those heads would be great for a stock stroke street engine. It would be a nice set-up and I know it is more popular now than previously.
For most people with bills though, or less engine building experience, I would recommend the 351W since there is a myriad of heads available and less cost because you don't need special parts ($$$$) to build one. You can also get the same amount of power for less money and headache, especially for the person that started this thread. If looking to be different then it would be a good project, if you've got the money. :thumb:
Steve
i have been talking to 2 different engine builders and both has suggested i go with anything other then a cast crank....they said with the spray it wont last...and both guys are very big name race engine shops so i trust them .... i would just really hate to build my engine and have it fail every season lol i want something with a little reliability to it ....if you guys really think i will be fine with a cast crank i will start looking into it ...im just going by what i was recommended no one has suggested cast as a option to me ...trust me i would love to get past the forged crank price :thumb:
ScottyDsntKnow
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,488
- Reaction score
- 29
Whoever said strokers don't last is full of it. Plenty of guys running strokers for years with no issues. Strokers have come a long way and the issues the 347s have are all worked out now. What are your hp goals? If you run a bunch of nitrous the stock 302 block is just not gonna hold up. The 351 rollers are good for about 700hp and the earlier 351 69-74 blocks are good for a little more.
The BEST option is to buy a DART type block but not everyone is made of money. You need to provide more details.
-What is your budget?
-What will this car be used for?
-How much experience do you have with these cars and engine building?
The BEST option is to buy a DART type block but not everyone is made of money. You need to provide more details.
-What is your budget?
-What will this car be used for?
-How much experience do you have with these cars and engine building?
tRaV_19 said:
It's good to ask around and get as much input as possible. :thumb: The ones that recommended anything other than cast, are they selling parts? HHhhmmm.....
For some other input, here's a quote from Jensen's Engine Technologies....http://www.jensensenginetech.com/4-05_tech_tip.html
For mild street use or stock rebuilds, all we do at the shop is magniflux and regrind them. If a racer wants to use it for bracket racing or limited oval track use, we will remove all of the casting imperfections on the rod throws to eliminate stress risers (a place for cracks to start). We will also cross drill the oil holes to provide better rod bearing lubrication.
One of the most important things that we do to a cast iron crankshaft equipped engine is not done to the crankshaft. It is very important that we use rods and pistons that are as lightweight as possible, so they don’t tear the rod journal off of the crank when it tried to stop them and pull them back down the cylinder at top dead center. With the right prep work and a lightweight rod and piston combination, a cast iron crankshaft should handle 500+ HP with no trouble at all.
It's because it is not an all out race engine that you are building. It's a street engine that you are going to get on at times. If you know you are going to use nitrous and the potential exists for an occasional lean condition and detonation, or if you see yourself hitting the nitrous often, then for piece of mind a cast steel or nodular iron crank will help you sleep better at night.
Steve
thanks for the info steve :thumb: the builders i was talking to were not going to sell me anything i was looking at outside sources ...but in my case with the 408 the car will see very little road time and tons of track time and nitrous will be dumped at it ....so im still wondering about the cast ...im thinking about using a 70 351 block and a cheap 408 kit with a cast crank and put it together on the cheap...and see what its benifits are and whats its limits are as well if i feel that i have a safety net with the build and it gets me where i want to be then good if not then its back to the board for the dart block and better stuff :thumb: thanks guys
ScottyDsntKnow
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,488
- Reaction score
- 29
400whp NA is easily doable on a well built 347 stoker. No need to go up to a 351.
ScottyDsntKnow
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,488
- Reaction score
- 29
Thats cool, I was just throwing it out there as a more economical and perfectly capable way of hitting upwards of 480whp with a 347.
ScottyDsntKnow said:
well actually the cost of building a 351 stroker to a 302 is really not all that much different price wise but if you were being super conservative and reused your distrubitor and all that i guess it would be a little cheaper
If your engine is going to see little street time and is going to be hit with nitrous on every run then I would go with a better crank than cast iron. :thumb: I don't know how much power my friend's 351C is making but it's a race only with a stock cast iron crank. He's had no problem with the crank in 10 years. The 351C has smaller crank journals though than a 351W so there's less friction too.
I agree, the more cubes you have to attain a certain power level the less the engine has to work to make that much power. It will be easier on the components if you've got more cubes.
Steve
I agree, the more cubes you have to attain a certain power level the less the engine has to work to make that much power. It will be easier on the components if you've got more cubes.
Steve
tRaV_19 said:
This is true to an extent, but if you're building a big stroker motor the cost usually comes in with buying everything BIG. Expensive cylinder heads, expensive exhaust, expensive intake/TB and so on. However, you'd need that for a nasty 347 anyway, so I agree with you regardless.
Paul.
Similar threads
