A big, little V8.......4.6 compared to 5.0

[BrandoGT]

Three timing chains are harder than one.

What motor has three timing chains? I know the 2V's have 2 timing chains and the 4V's have 4 timing chains, 2 chains goto the heads from the crank and 1 timing chain connecting the cams on each bank equals 4. hmmm 2v=2 chains and 4v=4 chains following this pattern 3V's must be the ones with 3 chains :hammer:

anyways on topic of the original thread, Aaron you should get a picture of the even bigger 5.4 as well to trump the 3 haha.

 

[OnyxCobra]

5.0s especially in SN95s are detuned crazy from the factory. With just tuning a stock 5.0 cobra engine plus full exhaust people have gotten in the neighborhood of 275whp which scoots pretty good. The stock intake manifold and E7 heads totally kill 5.0s in stock form.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

:blAh2: Everyone is going to defend whatever they have to death, I can show a ton of 2v car's making 275 with full exhaust and bolt ons.

Justin, you have no idea what was up with his car, or his driving. He may have 5 15" woofers in the back, so it's not a fair comparison.

They are very comparable motors actually. A HCI 5.0 makes around 300 hp (I don't care how many magazine articles you read, putting a matched HCI combo on a stock 302 will get you right around 300 rwhp). By the same token, a HCI 4.6... right around 300 rwhp.

Some of the aftermarket doesn't exist for 4.6's, because it is needed. You can easily make 5-600 rwhp with factor 2v heads, so why would anyone bring anything else to market? 5.0's have atrocious stock heads, worse than NPI's, and it still took 30 years for an aftermarket head to come out.

But the 5.0 DOES enjoy a larger aftermarket following, so why don't we see more of these with 5-600 rwhp? THey have been around longer, they have more support...

 

[justinschmidt1]

:blAh2: Everyone is going to defend whatever they have to death, I can show a ton of 2v car's making 275 with full exhaust and bolt ons.

Justin, you have no idea what was up with his car, or his driving. He may have 5 15" woofers in the back, so it's not a fair comparison.

They are very comparable motors actually. A HCI 5.0 makes around 300 hp (I don't care how many magazine articles you read, putting a matched HCI combo on a stock 302 will get you right around 300 rwhp). By the same token, a HCI 4.6... right around 300 rwhp.

Some of the aftermarket doesn't exist for 4.6's, because it is needed. You can easily make 5-600 rwhp with factor 2v heads, so why would anyone bring anything else to market? 5.0's have atrocious stock heads, worse than NPI's, and it still took 30 years for an aftermarket head to come out.

But the 5.0 DOES enjoy a larger aftermarket following, so why don't we see more of these with 5-600 rwhp? THey have been around longer, they have more support...

why do you say that?

I talked to him...I talk to everyone with a SN I see at the track haha.

He bought it, 5 speed, vert, 94 gt, 150k on the clock, intake, exhaust, said something about the previous owner saying it had a cam but he said he didnt believe it did.

there was a also a hot mystic cobra with long tubes running 13.4s

and a sn style car with full bolt ons and a 01 cobra motor with slicks and 4.30s running 11.7s

 

[OnyxCobra]

How come I always hear about how it's not worth modding 2v 4.6s unless you boost them? I hear all the time that it takes thousands of dollars and you still might not even come up with 300whp.

 

[justinschmidt1]

How come I always hear about how it's not worth modding 2v 4.6s unless you boost them? I hear all the time that it takes thousands of dollars and you still might not even come up with 300whp.

cause for some reason guys with 4.6s like to do CAI catback and tb/ plenum that costs them 1k and give them 7 hp

If you do it right you get hit 300 hp pretty cheap

stock npi, throw some Pi heads on there, get a set of cams, pi intake, and long tubes tuned should be pretty close to 300 whp

4.6 stuff cost a lot more money than 5.0 parts

It costs way too much money to make a lot of power with a 4.6 n/a when you could spend 4k on a blower kit and make 350-400 hp

 

[Jrgunn5150]

How come I always hear about how it's not worth modding 2v 4.6s unless you boost them? I hear all the time that it takes thousands of dollars and you still might not even come up with 300whp.

IMO, it's not, 300 rwhp is weak. And you won't surpass it by much with a HCI 2v motor. But again, you want surpass it by much with a similar 5.0 either. Call me jaded, but after 500, 300 is teh suck lol.

 

[justinschmidt1]

How come I always hear about how it's not worth modding 2v 4.6s unless you boost them? I hear all the time that it takes thousands of dollars and you still might not even come up with 300whp.

IMO, it's not, 300 rwhp is weak. And you won't surpass it by much with a HCI 2v motor. But again, you want surpass it by much with a similar 5.0 either. Call me jaded, but after 500, 300 is teh suck lol.

well...my cars probably puttin low 200s to the wheels right now..even if I did pi heads, cams and made close to 300 whp it would be a little faster but I would get used to it and be bored...+ i would still be getting owned by a lot of other cars, gtos,ss camaros, vettes, w/e

It just so much more worth it to spent the same amount of money on a blower rather than n/a

It would make like 75 more hp, better curve, peak hp earlier.

 

[Paul]

4v 4.6 is a better engine than the 5.0 :rollinglaugh:

saw a 94 5.0 run 14.9s tonight...whys my slow ass NPI auto 4.6 2v running a second faster?

4.6 2v FTW

I run 13.9X in my '95 daily driven turd with 135K miles. A feat you've not been able to accomplish with over 5 mph more trap speed, so I wouldn't talk quite so much smack. One 5.0 does not represent the rest of them. There are also plenty of 4.6 2Vs that run like shit.

Paul.

 

[Stangbangin]

4v 4.6 is a better engine than the 5.0 :rollinglaugh:

saw a 94 5.0 run 14.9s tonight...whys my slow ass NPI auto 4.6 2v running a second faster?

4.6 2v FTW

I run 13.9X in my '95 daily driven turd with 135K miles. A feat you've not been able to accomplish with over 5 mph more trap speed, so I wouldn't talk quite so much smack. One 5.0 does not represent the rest of them. There are also plenty of 4.6 2Vs that run like shit.

Paul.

word 5.0's should be in the 13's in stock form. It's just 95% of people can't drive. When I got my car stock I was running 13.9's consistently. PI motors are the same boat though. NPI motors should be mid 14's.

 

[justinschmidt1]

4v 4.6 is a better engine than the 5.0 :rollinglaugh:

saw a 94 5.0 run 14.9s tonight...whys my slow ass NPI auto 4.6 2v running a second faster?

4.6 2v FTW

I run 13.9X in my '95 daily driven turd with 135K miles. A feat you've not been able to accomplish with over 5 mph more trap speed, so I wouldn't talk quite so much smack. One 5.0 does not represent the rest of them. There are also plenty of 4.6 2Vs that run like shit.

Paul.

that feat is a lot harder when your cars auto

my car pulls up top, your car pulls down low hard and thats why you can run 13.9 at like 97 mph

this whole debate is stupid.....these engines are differant.

5.0s have a lot better lowend
4.6s have better topend

stock for stock, the 4.6s rule the 5.0s, theres no arguing this...its FACT!

5.0s are cheap to make fast but again hci 5.0 is very comparable to hci 4.6

there is bolt on 99+ gt's that run 12s

bolt ons 4.10s and slicks and they can run 12s if the driver isnt afraid to launch the hell out of it.

of course the stock axles should be upgraded it will break pretty soon


4.6 4v in a sn95 ran 11.70s with bolt ons last night

you gonna sit here and tell me you see 5.0s running 11s with bolt ons?

 

[Paul]

that feat is a lot harder when your cars auto

my car pulls up top, your car pulls down low hard and thats why you can run 13.9 at like 97 mph

I'm sorry, all I hear is excuses as to why your car is slower with more mods and more power.

stock for stock, the 4.6s rule the 5.0s, theres no arguing this...its FACT!

The NPI 4.6 is slower than an equivalent 5.0. That's why they had to improve them. The performance of the 96-98 GT Mustang was horrible.

5.0s are cheap to make fast but again hci 5.0 is very comparable to hci 4.6

First you're comparing stock vs stock, not you're comparing HCI vs HCI.

there is bolt on 99+ gt's that run 12s. bolt ons 4.10s and slicks and they can run 12s if the driver isnt afraid to launch the hell out of it.

There's a guy here in Phoenix that has run 12.97 in his '91 notch that has full exhaust, gears, slicks, and skinnies. His motor is 100% original from TB to pan and never had a valve cover lifted. What's your point?

4.6 4v in a sn95 ran 11.70s with bolt ons last night

So? Apples to hand grenades.

you gonna sit here and tell me you see 5.0s running 11s with bolt ons?

Ever heard of a guy named Bob Cosby?


Paul.

 

[justinschmidt1]

that feat is a lot harder when your cars auto

my car pulls up top, your car pulls down low hard and thats why you can run 13.9 at like 97 mph

I'm sorry, all I hear is excuses as to why your car is slower with more mods and more power.

stock for stock, the 4.6s rule the 5.0s, theres no arguing this...its FACT!

The NPI 4.6 is slower than an equivalent 5.0. That's why they had to improve them. The performance of the 96-98 GT Mustang was horrible.

5.0s are cheap to make fast but again hci 5.0 is very comparable to hci 4.6

First you're comparing stock vs stock, not you're comparing HCI vs HCI.

there is bolt on 99+ gt's that run 12s. bolt ons 4.10s and slicks and they can run 12s if the driver isnt afraid to launch the hell out of it.

There's a guy here in Phoenix that has run 12.97 in his '91 notch that has full exhaust, gears, slicks, and skinnies. His motor is 100% original from TB to pan and never had a valve cover lifted. What's your point?

4.6 4v in a sn95 ran 11.70s with bolt ons last night

So? Apples to hand grenades.

you gonna sit here and tell me you see 5.0s running 11s with bolt ons?

Ever heard of a guy named Bob Cosby?


Paul.

yea and the reason my car is slower is cause its auto queer- its not an excuse, its fucking common sense, more drivetrain loss, not as close ratio or low ratio gears, no ability to launch higher than 1500.

were comparing 4.6 to 5.0

not 4.6 npi to 5.0

4.6 pi, 4.6 3v, 4.6 4v are all better engines than the 5.0s

how is it apples to hand grenades when its still a 4.6 mod motor running 11s in his car?

5.0 is better than a stock NPI...but thats it when it comes to 4.6s

wow a 5.0 that can run 12.97 but guys with n/a 4.6 2v,3v,4v with the same shit can run faster thats my point.

yea, I was comparing stock vs stock then hci vs hci cause its equal dbag wtf are you talking about?



THERE IS NO POINT IN DEBATING THIS!

the only 4.6 a 5.0 is better than is a NPI

GET OVER IT

 

[Paul]

yea and the reason my car is slower is cause its auto queer- its not an excuse, its fucking common sense, more drivetrain loss, not as close ratio or low ratio gears, no ability to launch higher than 1500.

How is it that you're putting less power down if you're trapping 5 mph faster than me? Trap speed is a direct corrollary to rwhp. Sounds like an excuse to me. If I was running over 100 mph and still stuck in the 14s, I'd be pissed.

were comparing 4.6 to 5.0

not 4.6 npi to 5.0

4.6 pi, 4.6 3v, 4.6 4v are all better engines than the 5.0s

That's what is called a strawman fallacy. It's when you adjust your argument specifically so that your opponent is put in a position that is difficult or unreasonable to defend. Why don't you want to include the 4.6 NPI 2v? It was manufacturered around the same time as the last of the 5.0s. It was put in the SN95 GTs, not the Cobras. That doesn't make sense to me.

how is it apples to hand grenades when its still a 4.6 mod motor running 11s in his car?

See above.

5.0 is better than a stock NPI...but thats it when it comes to 4.6s

Weird. Because when I look at the leaderboard for the guys I race with, all the fastest cars have pushrods. So based on my experience, it appears than modded pushrod engines are faster than modded 4.6s. Strange.

wow a 5.0 that can run 12.97 but guys with n/a 4.6 2v,3v,4v with the same shit can run faster thats my point.

See "strawman argument" above.

yea, I was comparing stock vs stock then hci vs hci cause its equal dbag wtf are you talking about?

For a guy who says the argument is dumb and pointless, you sure seem pretty uptight about it. I guess I would be too if my modded 4.6 couldn't run 13s.

THERE IS NO POINT IN DEBATING THIS!

the only 4.6 a 5.0 is better than is a NPI

GET OVER IT

I'm quite "over it." All my pushrod cars are faster than yours so I'm not worried in the least.

Paul.

 

[justinschmidt1]

maybe your just upset that you cant trap 100 mph :dunno:

Trap speed is not directly related to RWHP, maybe you could say power to weight ratio.

200 rwhp in a 2000 pound car will trap a lot more than 200 rwhp in a 4000 lb car

It doesnt matter if my car makes more rwhp or not...your car has more torque and a lot better torque curve.
So with that said of course you would get out of the hole faster

what was your 60 foot time?

I dont even care about the track....its just something to do on a friday night with friends

I dont give a shit if my car runs 13s or not

Its my daily driver and is by no means fast

with all your great "knowledge" aka bullshit it just seems like you would realize that it doesnt matter if my car makes more rwhp.

Its about the power under the curve and torque

just cause I make 220 to the wheels and you make 200 to the wheel doesnt mean my car will be faster

your car has a better torque curve and makes its power earlier but doesnt have the topend of my car

therefore If I raced you from say 60-100 I would beat you

but you would beat me from 0-60

are you understanding any of this?

you talk like your big shit but you dont seem to know your ass from a hole in the ground

all the comes out is pushrods pushrods blah blah blah

 

[Paul]

Look at the end of the day, this is what it comes down to:


The newer 4.6s might make more power from the factory then the old 5.0s. I would hope so - they stopped putting them in Mustang 13 years ago. I would hope a major manufacturer would make some progress in that amount of time.

However, the overwhelming majority of both drag race and road race Mustangs are still using pushrods. Why? The engine architecture just makes more sense and makes more power, more easily. No dinky bore size or small cubic inches to deal with.

Paul.

 

[Paul]

maybe your just upset that you cant trap 100 mph :dunno:

That must be it. I'm worried that my daily driver won't trap 100 mph, even though I have three other Mustangs that are all faster.

Trap speed is not directly related to RWHP, maybe you could say power to weight ratio.

200 rwhp in a 2000 pound car will trap a lot more than 200 rwhp in a 4000 lb car

There is a latin term: ceteris paribus

Look it up.

It doesnt matter if my car makes more rwhp or not...your car has more torque and a lot better torque curve.
So with that said of course you would get out of the hole faster

what was your 60 foot time?

You were just telling me that 4.6s were superior though? How come my crappy 5.0 has a better torque curve? My short time was 2.01

I dont even care about the track....its just something to do on a friday night with friends. I dont give a shit if my car runs 13s or not. Its my daily driver and is by no means fast.

I don't care either. I just have fun with my cars. They aren't fast either.

with all your great "knowledge" aka bullshit it just seems like you would realize that it doesnt matter if my car makes more rwhp. Its about the power under the curve and torque. just cause I make 220 to the wheels and you make 200 to the wheel doesnt mean my car will be faster. your car has a better torque curve and makes its power earlier but doesnt have the topend of my car

So you're saying that my crappy 5.0 makes more average horsepower/torque than yours? But you just told me 4.6s were superior?

therefore If I raced you from say 60-100 I would beat you

Wait, I thought you owned a Mustang. Not a Supra. :hammer:

you talk like your big shit but you dont seem to know your ass from a hole in the ground

Hmmm. I feel pretty confident about my understanding of all of this actually. You can keep throwing out the ad hominems though. I'll just keep talking about Mustangs.

Paul.

 

[justinschmidt1]

Alright and even if what your saying is true, thats only one aspect

What about daily driven street cars?

I would say that 4.6s are 10x more common as DD on the road than old pushrod 5.0s

I still say that a 4.6 is a better engine for a DD street car/weekend warrior type car.

4.6 is a better car for someone looking for a daily driven car that they can still have fun in

Im not even gonna bother looking up your shitty latin terms.

DId I not just say 5.0s were better engines than npi 4.6s?

If I had a PI engine it would be no competition with your 5.0, I would walk you.

I have a npi 4.6 with pi intake that actually destroyed a lot of my low end power and torque

Yes, what Im saying is that even though my car may trap higher I still think your car has more torque and low end than mine which is why you can run faster times.

If I was able to knock almost a tenth off my 60 foot time down to a 2.01 like you my 14.08 should drop down to a 13.9 or so

technically my car is faster, yours is quicker

Yes, I wish I had a supra

So why are you being such a DBag about 5.0s being better than 4.6s?

 

[Paul]

Alright and even if what your saying is true, thats only one aspect. What about daily driven street cars?

I would say average horsepower and torque is pretty important for a daily driven streetcar.

I would say that 4.6s are 10x more common as DD on the road than old pushrod 5.0s

Umm, 5.0s were in production from 1979 to 1995 - I doubt it. Besides, what is your point? That there would be more newer cars on the road than older ones? I'm not following here.

I still say that a 4.6 is a better engine for a DD street car/weekend warrior type car. 4.6 is a better car for someone looking for a daily driven car that they can still have fun in

Okay, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I would say the opposite.

Im not even gonna bother looking up your shitty latin terms.

Too bad. You should. You might learn something.

DId I not just say 5.0s were better engines than npi 4.6s? If I had a PI engine it would be no competition with your 5.0, I would walk you.

Potentially. I would hope so after you spent all that money on HCI.

I have a npi 4.6 with pi intake that actually destroyed a lot of my low end power and torque. Yes, what Im saying is that even though my car may trap higher I still think your car has more torque and low end than mine which is why you can run faster times.

So just put the old one back on.

If I was able to knock almost a tenth off my 60 foot time down to a 2.01 like you my 14.08 should drop down to a 13.9 or so. technically my car is faster, yours is quicker

I agree.

So why are you being such a DBag about 5.0s being better than 4.6s?

The same reason you're being a "Dbag" about 4.6s being better than 5.0s.

Let it be.

Paul.






[/quote]

 

[justinschmidt1]

ok...im done