A big, little V8.......4.6 compared to 5.0

[Jrgunn5150]

I don't know what you're talking about Paul, I compared both stock 5.0's to stock NPI 2v's, and mild HCI 5.0's to mild HCI NPI 2v's... They are very comparable in the SN.

You're looking at about 300-325 rwhp in your current build, a PI swapped NPI makes very similar power, for a very similar price. They will all run very similar times, and all put down similar numbers, and for similar prices...

I'm not reaching into the outlandish files for Factory Street cars or anything else.

 

[justinschmidt1]

hes an old school push rod guy whos opinion is that pushrods are better than the ohc design

they are very comparable in a lot of ways...theyre v8s, close to the same size, both made by ford

 

[97vertstang]

any HCI 5.0 will make between 280-320 rwhp, a pi'ed npi will make 250-270rwhp, now a real HCI 4.6. like ported and polished heads,aftermarket intake manifold, and aftermarket cams, will produce 300-330 rwhp. the difference, any moron can do a HCI on a 5.0 and on a budget, while the 4.6 will take more knowledge and a lot more money. i dont think anyone will produce aftermarket heads for a 4.6 2v since the 3v came out. but it would be interesting to see a aftermarket headed,cammed , and intake manifold 4.6. even better on 4.6 stroker or big bored 4.6. but all the focus is on the 4v and 3v now.

one argument that i saw was that a 4.6 is a better daily driver than a 5.0???? im going to stick my foot and ask how???? we dont see that many foxes any more on the street because theyre at least 15 yrs old. i see more new edges on the road than sn95s does that make em better daily drivers than???? my 91 is my daily driver and i love it.

 

[justinschmidt1]

well the whole 5.0 daily driver statement was stupid now that I think about it.

I just feel like 4.6s are more reserved, smooth car than an old fox.

Still, a fox could be a good daily driver if thats what ya like

 

[rick focks]

i'm startin' to wonder if the 3v hci swap is going to be the future of our npi 4.6s...

 

[Shocker98GT]

Paul really isn't what I'd call an "old school pushrod" guy, the bottleneck on the 4.6L isn't the OHC technology, it's the small bore size and relative lack of displacement that comes along with it. If everything else were the same and the modular were a pushrod engine, it'd be even worse than being OHC, and much worse than a 5.0L because it'd be the same thing, except with shrouded valves and smaller displacement. OHC and the block strength allowing good boost levels are the ONLY saving graces of these engines. It just doesn't help that on top of that, the 4.6 is more expensive to upgrade due to the added amount of parts required, which is most likely why people aren't too keen on the OHC technology. If the 4.6 were a pushrod, I imagine aftermarket manufacturers would at least be making heads for the engines, where they're timid about it now because an OHC head requires more precision to manufacture, on top of the fact that by the time they invested the time to tool a head, Ford is already moving at a pace faster than they can keep up anyway.

 

[AaRoN]

Paul really isn't what I'd call an "old school pushrod" guy, the bottleneck on the 4.6L isn't the OHC technology, it's the small bore size and relative lack of displacement that comes along with it. If everything else were the same and the modular were a pushrod engine, it'd be even worse than being OHC, and much worse than a 5.0L because it'd be the same thing, except with shrouded valves and smaller displacement. OHC and the block strength allowing good boost levels are the ONLY saving graces of these engines. It just doesn't help that on top of that, the 4.6 is more expensive to upgrade due to the added amount of parts required, which is most likely why people aren't too keen on the OHC technology. If the 4.6 were a pushrod, I imagine aftermarket manufacturers would at least be making heads for the engines, where they're timid about it now because an OHC head requires more precision to manufacture, on top of the fact that by the time they invested the time to tool a head, Ford is already moving at a pace faster than they can keep up anyway.

Refer below

:blAh2: Everyone is going to defend whatever they have to death, I can show a ton of 2v car's making 275 with full exhaust and bolt ons.

Justin, you have no idea what was up with his car, or his driving. He may have 5 15" woofers in the back, so it's not a fair comparison.

They are very comparable motors actually. A HCI 5.0 makes around 300 hp (I don't care how many magazine articles you read, putting a matched HCI combo on a stock 302 will get you right around 300 rwhp). By the same token, a HCI 4.6... right around 300 rwhp.

Some of the aftermarket doesn't exist for 4.6's, because it isn't needed. You can easily make 5-600 rwhp with factor 2v heads, so why would anyone bring anything else to market? 5.0's have atrocious stock heads, worse than NPI's, and it still took 30 years for an aftermarket head to come out.

But the 5.0 DOES enjoy a larger aftermarket following, so why don't we see more of these with 5-600 rwhp? THey have been around longer, they have more support...

 

[AaRoN]

any HCI 5.0 will make between 280-320 rwhp, a pi'ed npi will make 250-270rwhp, now a real HCI 4.6. like ported and polished heads,aftermarket intake manifold, and aftermarket cams, will produce 300-330 rwhp. the difference, any moron can do a HCI on a 5.0 and on a budget, while the 4.6 will take more knowledge and a lot more money. i dont think anyone will produce aftermarket heads for a 4.6 2v since the 3v came out. but it would be interesting to see a aftermarket headed,cammed , and intake manifold 4.6. even better on 4.6 stroker or big bored 4.6. but all the focus is on the 4v and 3v now.

one argument that i saw was that a 4.6 is a better daily driver than a 5.0???? im going to stick my foot and ask how???? we dont see that many foxes any more on the street because theyre at least 15 yrs old. i see more new edges on the road than sn95s does that make em better daily drivers than???? my 91 is my daily driver and i love it.

Aftermarket IM's on a 4.6 are a complete waste. The PI IM flows a very good amount of air. A "real HCI" 4.6 would be best done with aftermarket cams and ported/polished heads.

 

[BlackMachDown]

lolz at this thread
coming from someone who has had both a 4.6 4v and a mild HCI 5.0, i PREFER the 5.0.

Those of you trying to compare talk about npi dont forget that GT40 heads and GT40 STYLE intakes came on the cobras which can match the power levels of the pi GT's and if i can recall correctly just with stick tires and gears those cars can hit twelves, infact i know one guy on svt performance with full exhaust and a supercharger that is running deep in the 11's

take it for what its worth

I agree with paul IF ford had kept the 5.0 in production we would be making more power than the ls1.

btw the reason ford went with the modular is because they wanted one block for all cars hence the term modular not because its a better engine, just a more universal

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I will take it for what it's worth.

I'm hardly a fanboy of mod motors, go to the 96-98 section and see how everyone thinks I'm a dick. BUT, anything you can do with a 5.0, I can do to a NPI 2v, for the same amount of money.

As a matter of fact, I will challenge anyone to an E-buildoff :hammer: (I coined another new term). You ebuild a 5.0, anyway you want, keep track of the cost's (no, I had two turbos laying around, so they are free!), make sure to get flow specs, and I will ebuild an equivilant NPI car, with equivilant money, and we'll run them through my desktop dyno and desktop drag (it has an SN in it). I'll post screenshots for proof.

 

[95Grandtouring5.0]

At the end of the day, your comparing apples to oranges.

They are both similiar in the fact that they are v8's and both have a relatively small bore.

Both engines, if maintained well can last extremely long times. Although through all the argueing in this thread, which I have enjoyed very thoroughly I have yet to see anyone mention the almighty 351W.

 

[AaRoN]

At the end of the day, your comparing apples to oranges.

They are both similiar in the fact that they are v8's and both have a relatively small bore.

Both engines, if maintained well can last extremely long times. Although through all the argueing in this thread, which I have enjoyed very thoroughly I have yet to see anyone mention the almighty 351W.

Probably because the 351 is neither a 4.6 or a 5.0.

 

[95Grandtouring5.0]

Yet it is a windsor which a 5.0 also is, and I have also heard some compares to the 5.4 motor.

 

[AaRoN]

Yet it is a windsor which a 5.0 also is, and I have also heard some compares to the 5.4 motor.

Yeah, this thread kinda went everywhere. But it was SUPPOSED to just show the physical size difference between the 4.6 and 5.0.

 

[realitygt]

Yet it is a windsor which a 5.0 also is, and I have also heard some compares to the 5.4 motor.

Yeah, this thread kinda went everywhere. But it was SUPPOSED to just show the physical size difference between the 4.6 and 5.0.

4.6 is beastly. it takes up the whole engine compartment lol

 

[AaRoN]

Yet it is a windsor which a 5.0 also is, and I have also heard some compares to the 5.4 motor.

Yeah, this thread kinda went everywhere. But it was SUPPOSED to just show the physical size difference between the 4.6 and 5.0.

4.6 is beastly. it takes up the whole engine compartment lol

It's heavy too. I had to lift (with help) my 01 into the back of a Toyota 4runner. That sucked.

 

[realitygt]

Yet it is a windsor which a 5.0 also is, and I have also heard some compares to the 5.4 motor.

Yeah, this thread kinda went everywhere. But it was SUPPOSED to just show the physical size difference between the 4.6 and 5.0.

4.6 is beastly. it takes up the whole engine compartment lol

It's heavy too. I had to lift (with help) my 01 into the back of a Toyota 4runner. That sucked.

you could've gave it a little 5.0 as a treat and it would've jumped in and rolled over

 

[Stangbangin]

I've said this before but I'll say it again. I feel like both motors have their advantages. Both can make power. BUT you can build a 5.0 top to bottom cheaper than a 4.6. Thats a fact. Doesn't make it better but for the enthusiast on a budget it does. The 5.0 is very popular and will be probably forever. The 4.6 pi and 4v are better stock but a built 5.0 can make just as much if not more power (as long as it can be stroked) I will also say the modulars are more efficient motors being that the smaller cubic inches still flow alot of air. Being a die hard push rod guy its hard for me to say that I feel like the Mod motors are the future of the ford industry.

 

[AaRoN]

I've said this before but I'll say it again. I feel like both motors have their advantages. Both can make power. BUT you can build a 5.0 top to bottom cheaper than a 4.6. Thats a fact. Doesn't make it better but for the enthusiast on a budget it does. The 5.0 is very popular and will be probably forever. The 4.6 pi and 4v are better stock but a built 5.0 can make just as much if not more power (as long as it can be stroked) I will also say the modulars are more efficient motors being that the smaller cubic inches still flow alot of air. Being a die hard push rod guy its hard for me to say that I feel like the Mod motors are the future of the ford industry.

I agree. They both have their advantages. I'm not a pushrod guy nor am I a Modular guy. I like'em both :dunno:

 

[ScottyDsntKnow]

I'm a pushrod guy all the way but I do think the modulars are great for what they're used for. Cheap production motors that make BIG power per cubic inch. The 3v cars with bolt ons and tunes are running like 12.5 which is nuts. I knew a guy a year ago in college that bought an 06 GTO brand new, spent $3,000 on exhaust/tune/intake and then got beaten by an 05 GT at the track making 335 to the wheels with $1500ish worth of bolt ons. Pwned.

However unless you buy an expensive ass blower for the 05-up cars thats about as far as the 3vs are going to go right now. My friend's old 94 SVT Cobra ran a 12.9 on a stock HCI with exhaust/pullies/gears/cai/a9l swap so I can just throw that out there. The 5.0 is just a better bang for the buck motor right now and probably forever since its not very technical and can make ridiculous power both NA or blown. Plus that monstrosity of a 4.6 block is HUGE and HEAVY and I doubt it'll ever amount to anything in the motor swap scene like the 5.0 has.