Broken water pump bolts / Removing timing cover

muskyfins · Jun 27, 2013

I have 1995 GT and removed all bolts, HB, etc. Two bolts snapped in TC-one on each side of th water pump. I have drilled them to about 1/2" from the face of the block. And of course TC won't move.

Any new ideas?

I'm a big guy at 6'-2" and 370 pounds. I can easily break stuff, but something seems wrong. I was prying on the cover a bit and bent a 42" pry bar. It shouldn't require this much force. I have already ordered a new Tc so if I must break it, so be it, but I'm afraid of all th other things that might break in the process.

Sorry for lousy post, but I'm out of ideas. I swapped an entire engine in a vehicle last summer with less headache and in less time. LOL

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

DeepList · Jun 27, 2013

Heat and vice grips?

MustangChris · Jun 27, 2013

strange.

so, this may be far-fetched, but one of our founders was removing his crank pulley and discovered the previous owner welded it onto the crankshaft... lol.

do you see any spot-weld locations? maybe covered by paint?

did you use a rubber mallet to try and break the seal (if its using RTV)?

muskyfins · Jun 27, 2013

To the mods-I see what you did there.....sorry

Vise grips wont make it around TC. Bolts are long gone. Cover still stuck.

No signs of welding. Cover is alum and block is cast, right? Weld wouldn't work.

Gonna try air hammer/air chisel on Saturday. Should make my neighbors pretty happy.

MustangChris · Jun 27, 2013

?? what did the mods do?

and that's going to be rough! Take the camera, we're all super interested!!

Corndiddly · Jun 27, 2013

Bent a 42" pry bar on that? You might wanna get a better brand. I had a lot of trouble getting my timing cover off as well. There was a lot of corrosion in the holes. I guess I would triple check and make sure all the bolts are out.

Steve-Oh · Jun 28, 2013

[MENTION=18557]muskyfins[/MENTION], Did you take out the four bolts on the bottom, 2 on each side of the balancer

81EBBBFC-3673-480A-A309-DF5B010851A1-37561-000008AF908AA971_zpsa2b26264.jpg

Anywho you can see the two missing bolts which need to be removed (two on each side).

If you have removed them, I dunno what to say. Where are you prying from? There are two dowels that hold the cover in place so if you're prying from the very top I can imagine it might wedge itself. Make sure you work your way around best you can as to evenly work the cover off.
Sent from Space

muskyfins · Jun 28, 2013

Corndiddly said:
Bent a 42" pry bar on that? You might wanna get a better brand. I had a lot of trouble getting my timing cover off as well. There was a lot of corrosion in the holes. I guess I would triple check and make sure all the bolts are out.

I admit, pry bar was a cheappy, but like I said, I'm a big dude. Rocked the car all the way back and started lifting weight off the front springs, when I decided that's too much. Need to find my local Mac tools guy. Was prying against a bolt on the alternator bracket.

muskyfins · Jun 28, 2013

Steve-Oh said:
muskyfins, Did you take out the four bolts on the bottom, 2 on each side of the balancer

Anywho you can see the two missing bolts which need to be removed (two on each side).

If you have removed them, I dunno what to say. Where are you prying from? There are two dowels that hold the cover in place so if you're prying from the very top I can imagine it might wedge itself. Make sure you work your way around best you can as to evenly work the cover off.
Sent from Space

Got the 4 oil pan bolts out. I could understand that the dowels wouldn't allow it to move far, but she won't even break loose a little. I was prying form a bolt on the alternator bracket. (or somewhere in that neghbor hood-memory clouded by rage. It was something substantial that I knew wouldn't give, or break)

muskyfins · Jun 28, 2013

I was hoping there might be some magic bullet out there. You know-like put top two bolts half way in, use gear puller, bolted to radiator support, blah blah blah, pops right off. LOL

I truly appreciate all the help and suggestions. I will start again Saturday am. Triple check all bolts. Maybe drill broken ones further. Slow down. Think.

If that doesn't work......break stuff.

In any case, I always report resolutions on the interwebs in case someone elese ever has the same problem and finds this thread on a search.

DeepList · Jun 28, 2013

Good luck. And the follow up is always appreciated!

Welcome to the forums BTW... nice to have you here.

CC'S95GT · Jun 28, 2013

spray some PB blaster on the broken bolts and let'em set for 6 hours or so,

D3VST8R96GT · Jun 28, 2013

Easy out drill bit and an impact gun

I had a dowel plug get seized in place once and that was my solution ..... I couldn't heat it up

The D3V

muskyfins · Jun 29, 2013

Thanks everyone. Got her off about 5 minutes ago. Details Monday from work with pictures. Get your popcorn out for story time with Muskyfins.

MustangChris · Jun 29, 2013

oh boy! :-D Story time with Muskyfins!!!

DeepList · Jun 29, 2013

MustangChris said:
oh boy! :-D Story time with Muskyfins!!!

Can't wait!

muskyfins · Jul 1, 2013

This is a long story. For cliffs see next post.

Once upon a time in the land of small block Ford make believe, existed a myth that these engines are easy to work on. But the wicked witch of broken bolts made sure never to let muskyfins out of the enchanted garage……

Anyway, as discussed previously, I have spent about 8 hours trying to free the TC from myson’s 1995 GT. The corrosion interference between the TC through hole and the bolts was so great that two bolts snapped off.

So, more removal of things in the way-water pump, fan, tensioner pulley, etc and we drill. Smoke the first drill bit. Keep drilling with a larger bit and of coursethe drill walks off center. Eventually,the bit is within Â½” of the block. But Istill have a half a bolt in the hole. Note: half a bolt which means the corrosion is at least cut in half.

I’ll just remove TC…. Get out all bolts. Remove more stuff in the way. Like power steering pump and bracket. Maybe if I use a pry bar, I can get the TCoff? No such luck. As mentioned previously, bent pry bar. Ok, time for redneck engineering. (what I’m about to admit is a bit embarrassing but I was again blinded by rage) It just so happens that the hole I ended up making with the drill is about the clearance for 5/16-18 tap. Decided that since theTC is in no danger of coming off and I just needed a hole to secure water pump I would tap the hole-threads would be half in alum and half in steel of leftover bolt. Yes, very redneck. Everything was going fine and tap is just about deep enough that I should start to……SNAP. Yep, tap broke in TC.

I figured I should try to at least get the damn thing out and start over. Can’t drill hardened tap, but you can drill between the flutes and loosen it enough to spin it back a quarter turn and getit out. Well, me and the drill didn’thave a clear understanding of each other. Got three flutes drilled and the fourth one walked. I may have lost my patience a bit and wailed on the drill at that point and pushed it so far that it dug into the gasket face for the water pump rendering the TC useless.

So now TC must be removed and discarded. Installed new drill bit and drilled second bolt. Walked but I didn’t care since it was all trash by now. At this point tried prying TC off and nothing. Not even a budge. Sent out distress signal to SN95 Forums.

Got a fresh start by removing just about everything from front of motor-AC (was going todelete anyway), smog pump, etc. Hammered the hell out of TC. No way to budgeit. Stupid neighbor comes over and convinces me that the oil pan is holding it in place. (not the 4 bolts, but need more slack) Take out next few oil pan bolts. Hammer some more, pry some more. Nothing.

By now I was good and pi$$ed. Tell the boy-“Give me the attitude adjuster”. Reminder, I’m apretty big fella at 6’2” and 370 pounds. Gave it everything I got…..SNAP. Broke the top half of the TC off. But not around the two bolts!

After regaining my composure, took drastic measures. Cut a V-shaped notch (about 90 degrees) out of boss containing broken bolt. Inserted chisel and snapped off wedge of aluminum. Few more wiggles with screwdriver tip and voila-corrosion breaks free. Able to move TC BY HAND. That’s right, the freaking corrosion between HALF a bolt and the aluminum was as strong as a weld. Actually had to cut aluminum off of said bolt.

There was no way to get cutting tool on other side for second broken bolt. Used much larger drill bit and drilled everything out of there possible. Put pry bar between cover and block—POP. Off shecame. Broken/drilled bolts unscrewed almost by hand.

That’s when Ifound the non-roller timing chain-puzzling?? And started the re-install. But those are issues for other threads.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and support. Myth Busted.

muskyfins · Jul 1, 2013

Cliffs-Corrosionaround broken bolts as strong as weld. Try to drill bolts, but make sure to get all of bolt. Use larger bit if necessary. As last resort cut a notch in aluminum of TCmaking sure not to damage anything else. Break aluminum off. Hammer orchisel corrosion free. See photos inpost above.