Comparing 4.6l head flow and cams to the pushrod 5.0

[DropTopPony]

Hmmmm who wants to buy my PI SVO/FRPP Supercharger kit for $6k ok SN95 discount $5500.

That's a lot of cheese!

Mine was $@2800 for the complete kit new.

 

[DropTopPony]

A PI intake manifold would be worthwhile until you gather all the parts for your supercharger setup, and they're always being bought/sold on corral so you could get your money back if you go SVO blower someday. Personally, I don't know if I would go changing heads if I were going SVO blower, but for expense reasons I've never really gotten that deep into the trickflow heads so don't base your judgment on me. I swear I remember nick mckinney saying something about the valves being moved changed the way the cam rides, and that most cams weren't meant to work with them. I'd have to dig that up if you're dead set on the trickflow route. As far as porting goes, you really can't port the factory PI intake or the later NPI intake. you could port the old aluminum NPI intake, but it still wouldn't be as good as a stock PI intake. If you wanted better than the stock PI intake, you'd go to the SVO (n/a) intake, or the Bullitt intake, depending on if you're going NPI/PI. Either one is fairly expensive, but on a max effort N/a engine they're worth it.

Nick was correct.
Mike from L&M Engines was the one who figured out the difference then Nick and Cushman were right behind them with the info.

When I ordered my cams from Cushman I just had to let him know I needed the TFS grind. I had planned on using L&M but they want $850 for a set of 2V cams.

 

[JerZeyStangz]

Nick was correct.
Mike from L&M Engines was the one who figured out the difference then Nick and Cushman were right behind them with the info.

When I ordered my cams from Cushman I just had to let him know I needed the TFS grind. I had planned on using L&M but they want $850 for a set of 2V cams.

Why they charge so much!

 

[Thomas_W]

It would be cool if he was on the board. Boost is a measure of restriction so if the heads can flow good I dont have to run 9psi, I would like to run something much lower like 6psi and see what I net.

I made 400rwhp with a 6psi pulley on a PI motor with the Crower Stage 2 blower cams. The 9psi pulley would likely get you at the 400 mark without the cams. So, its not really necessary to get PI or trick flow heads. A good set of cams netted me a 80 rwhp gain,granted it was about $200 per HP for the cams and valve spring upgrade, then another $400 for the dyno tune

 

[Thomas_W]

Nick was correct.
Mike from L&M Engines was the one who figured out the difference then Nick and Cushman were right behind them with the info.

When I ordered my cams from Cushman I just had to let him know I needed the TFS grind. I had planned on using L&M but they want $850 for a set of 2V cams.

$850 for a set of custom grinds isn't bad. The Modular Powerhouse custom grind turbo cams i had done 10 years ago were $1400!

 

[JerZeyStangz]

I made 400rwhp with a 6psi pulley on a PI motor with the Crower Stage 2 blower cams. The 9psi pulley would likely get you at the 400 mark without the cams. So, its not really necessary to get PI or trick flow heads. A good set of cams netted me a 80 rwhp gain,granted it was about $200 per HP for the cams and valve spring upgrade, then another $400 for the dyno tune

Do you have any video footage of this setup? Next, was the engine happy and live a good a life. The reason why I asked because I know the blower cams help relieve cylinder head pressure but what did you do for terms of cooling? If you can control those two items the stock shortblock can live a good life on top of spot on tune.

 

[DropTopPony]

$850 for a set of custom grinds isn't bad. The Modular Powerhouse custom grind turbo cams i had done 10 years ago were $1400!

Jim Cushman did them for under $600. I just called him up and told him what I was doing.

 

[Thomas_W]

Do you have any video footage of this setup? Next, was the engine happy and live a good a life. The reason why I asked because I know the blower cams help relieve cylinder head pressure but what did you do for terms of cooling? If you can control those two items the stock shortblock can live a good life on top of spot on tune.

I do somewhere, but not on this computer and the computer i believe it is on is in storage currently.. The 04PI motor i put the blower on lasted a little over a year.. Then i decided to build the engine, which turned into a complete car setup build and before you know it, it went from a forged shortblock to crazy. lol

The car had some consistency issues with the tuning and how it ran. I'm 100% positive that is because of the SVO supplied computer tune. Some days it would perform great, other days it felt like a v6 with 2.73 gears pulling 5000lbs of crap behind the car.. It was always very inconsistent on when the tune consistency problems would pop up and how often. Some days it'd be 95* outside and run like crap, then not have a problem for 2-3 months. then the next time it'd be 65* and humid, or 75* and dry.. never any consistency, but when it was on a good day it ran AWESOME! After the dyno tune, the consistency problems became much less frequent, but it would still have temper tantrums. The last temper tantrum i was coming up to a redlight and blipped the throttle for a 3rd to 2nd downshift and instantly got rod knock. It Banana'd the #5 connecting connecting rod in two different directions...

 

[JerZeyStangz]

I do somewhere, but not on this computer and the computer i believe it is on is in storage currently.. The 04PI motor i put the blower on lasted a little over a year.. Then i decided to build the engine, which turned into a complete car setup build and before you know it, it went from a forged shortblock to crazy. lol

The car had some consistency issues with the tuning and how it ran. I'm 100% positive that is because of the SVO supplied computer tune. Some days it would perform great, other days it felt like a v6 with 2.73 gears pulling 5000lbs of crap behind the car.. It was always very inconsistent on when the tune consistency problems would pop up and how often. Some days it'd be 95* outside and run like crap, then not have a problem for 2-3 months. then the next time it'd be 65* and humid, or 75* and dry.. never any consistency, but when it was on a good day it ran AWESOME! After the dyno tune, the consistency problems became much less frequent, but it would still have temper tantrums. The last temper tantrum i was coming up to a redlight and blipped the throttle for a 3rd to 2nd downshift and instantly got rod knock. It Banana'd the #5 connecting connecting rod in two different directions...

You think you could of had a bad IAT sensor or some type of cooling issue. Did you use the stock water pump and radiator with this setup?

 

[Thomas_W]

You think you could of had a bad IAT sensor or some type of cooling issue. Did you use the stock water pump and radiator with this setup?

It was the stock water pump and radiator, but it wasn't a cooling issue. I had Autometer oil press/water temp gauges in the car very early on and even in summer time florida, stop and go trafffic at the time, it would never jump over 210* on the temp gauge..

IAT sensor was expected at one point, but i replaced it, same went with the MAF. It was a bug in the ECU as i have spoken with others with the SVO computer and everyone has expressed some sort of issue with it. Even during the dyno tune, my tuner made mention how it took multiple attempts to get the computer to accept the loaded tune. The Xcal 2 (that'll date all this) would "load" the tune, but when he would do the next dyno run, nothing seemed to have changed. So he would go in to check to see if what he had loaded actually loaded, and sometimes all of it would the first time, then sometimes only some of the adjusted parameters would.. It was on my list to get a factory ECU for the car, but life got in the way and i ended up selling it before i had the opportunity to.

 

[JerZeyStangz]

It was the stock water pump and radiator, but it wasn't a cooling issue. I had Autometer oil press/water temp gauges in the car very early on and even in summer time florida, stop and go trafffic at the time, it would never jump over 210* on the temp gauge..

IAT sensor was expected at one point, but i replaced it, same went with the MAF. It was a bug in the ECU as i have spoken with others with the SVO computer and everyone has expressed some sort of issue with it. Even during the dyno tune, my tuner made mention how it took multiple attempts to get the computer to accept the loaded tune. The Xcal 2 (that'll date all this) would "load" the tune, but when he would do the next dyno run, nothing seemed to have changed. So he would go in to check to see if what he had loaded actually loaded, and sometimes all of it would the first time, then sometimes only some of the adjusted parameters would.. It was on my list to get a factory ECU for the car, but life got in the way and i ended up selling it before i had the opportunity to.

What was so special about the SVO ECU that you couldn't use your factory oem ECU to run the blower? I think you would had better chances with oem ECU uploading a modified tune, maybe things would be different im not sure just guessing.

 

[Thomas_W]

What was so special about the SVO ECU that you couldn't use your factory oem ECU to run the blower? I think you would had better chances with oem ECU uploading a modified tune, maybe things would be different im not sure just guessing.

I bought the car used for dirt cheap and the blower was already installed. The SVO "blower" was sold separately from the "install" kit. The install kit included a new special computer just for the blower tunes provided by ford.

 

[Silver95bird]

I do somewhere, but not on this computer and the computer i believe it is on is in storage currently.. The 04PI motor i put the blower on lasted a little over a year.. Then i decided to build the engine, which turned into a complete car setup build and before you know it, it went from a forged shortblock to crazy. lol

The car had some consistency issues with the tuning and how it ran. I'm 100% positive that is because of the SVO supplied computer tune. Some days it would perform great, other days it felt like a v6 with 2.73 gears pulling 5000lbs of crap behind the car.. It was always very inconsistent on when the tune consistency problems would pop up and how often. Some days it'd be 95* outside and run like crap, then not have a problem for 2-3 months. then the next time it'd be 65* and humid, or 75* and dry.. never any consistency, but when it was on a good day it ran AWESOME! After the dyno tune, the consistency problems became much less frequent, but it would still have temper tantrums. The last temper tantrum i was coming up to a redlight and blipped the throttle for a 3rd to 2nd downshift and instantly got rod knock. It Banana'd the #5 connecting connecting rod in two different directions...

Did you relocate the IAT to the outlet side of the blower? That and a tuner who really knows SVO blowers really aren't optional with one of those. The lack of intercooler makes them a lot different to tune than something like an 03 Cobra. And everyone I've seen said that SVO computer was a garbage tune. Because they didn't move the IAT from the factory, they had to make the tunes super safe, and that really left a lot on the table. Also remember, the svo heads were brand new but super expensive, and the NPI cams were literally the only cam available. You know, back when everyone had one of those goofy timing adjusters. Remember those?

 

[Thomas_W]

Did you relocate the IAT to the outlet side of the blower? That and a tuner who really knows SVO blowers really aren't optional with one of those. The lack of intercooler makes them a lot different to tune than something like an 03 Cobra. And everyone I've seen said that SVO computer was a garbage tune. Because they didn't move the IAT from the factory, they had to make the tunes super safe, and that really left a lot on the table. Also remember, the svo heads were brand new but super expensive, and the NPI cams were literally the only cam available. You know, back when everyone had one of those goofy timing adjusters. Remember those?

haha.. yes but this well after all of that. All of this happened in late 2005. IAT sensor was still in the elbow and like you said, the tune was super conservative because of that and the tuner was familiar with the SVO blower as i was the 3rd of 4th car he had done with one, and also the highest RWHP he had seen with one on a nearly stock motor. I didn't have long term plans to keep that blower so didn't bother drilling and tapping it to relocate the IAT... I did have intentions on putting a 9psi pulley on (and had one made) but the motor went pop about 3 days after the pulley showed up, so my long term plans to replace it turned into a short term plan. lol

 

[JerZeyStangz]

Did you relocate the IAT to the outlet side of the blower? That and a tuner who really knows SVO blowers really aren't optional with one of those. The lack of intercooler makes them a lot different to tune than something like an 03 Cobra. And everyone I've seen said that SVO computer was a garbage tune. Because they didn't move the IAT from the factory, they had to make the tunes super safe, and that really left a lot on the table. Also remember, the svo heads were brand new but super expensive, and the NPI cams were literally the only cam available. You know, back when everyone had one of those goofy timing adjusters. Remember those?

So you should drill and tap the blower for sensor near the outlet for accurate readings? I'm still learning but when the IAT is near the air filter heat between that section of pipe is completely different?

 

[Thomas_W]

So you should drill and tap the blower for sensor near the outlet for accurate readings? I'm still learning but when the IAT is near the air filter heat between that section of pipe is completely different?

Since the SVO blower isn't intercooled, anytime you compress air (which is what a supercharger/turbo does) the air temperature increases. This increase in air temperature makes detonation more likely, which means you have to drop Timing to prevent it. If the OAT (outside air temp) is 90*, the IAT will likely show somewhere around 90* as well if its located in the Intake elbow. After the supercharger, it will be significantly higher. So if its located in the intake plenum between the Supercharger itself and the intake valves, the tuner has a more accurate Air temp reading and can provide a more accurate tune because of that.

 

[DropTopPony]

2 different ways to relocate the sensor. You need to buy a threaded sensor for the relocation.
I snagged one off Amazon cheap.