Educate me and tips for my build up...

FrankenStang

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Im lost when it comes to these 4v 4.6's....i have a 98 LSC in my 97 thunderbird....I want to start modding it but dont wanna spend money on sht thats not going to do anything...how does the 65??? BBK throttlebodies work on these motors? feel any changes at wot or any proven dyno gains? Im looking into bolt on's for now as i cannoot afford cams or a supercharger....i see alot of B style ported heads that are fresh for under 400$, those give many gains? also would it be worth it for me todo a cobra manifold onto this motor? how do underdrive pullies effect these motors,any charge or cooling issues? any suggested oil grades or any suggestions on sparkplugs?
Reason asking so much is i built a 2v awhile ago and spent alot of money on sht that didnt bennefit me untill i got into the heads and cams...
I will be getting a tune soon also and im getting a brand new set of 42lb smartfire injectors, car has exhaust and a 255lph fuelpump and i know i dont need that large of injectors yet but if tuned for them would they run just as well as the stock 24's? i also will be putting a 120 shot on this as my 2nd or 3rd mod also...thats a for shur one im doing as i know the n2o performs!
 

BigBore96

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Happy to help. Are you planning on building the motor to strengthen it or leaving it stock?

Throttle bodys for N/A 4vs do nothing. You'd be lucky to see 1-2 hp. Some have idle issues as well. That being said I have the accufab single blade. Works as it should. Only noticeable difference is it whistles more. Unless you've got the extra money for it, spend money somewhere else.

Porting B heads really is not good for them. They already flow a lot and opening them up more is bad, especially for N/A. A good angle valve job though is definitely worth it. But a port job isn't. Especially if the guy doing the port job doesn't know B heads very well. A bad port job will cost you power. Keep them stock with a valve job and you'd be good to go. If you do research on it, basically you will find companies like MMR saying it is good for power. In reality all they want is money. Their mindset is that everything has 1000+ hp.

Underdrive pulleys get a bad rap for 4vs. (I run underdrives on mine) Balance needs to be perfect or you run the risk of shattering an oil pump gear which costs you the motor . If you want an underdrive pulley there are 2 things I suggest doing. And the first I suggest doing anyway if you have a modular. Get a Triangle Speed Shop H/O oil pump with billet gears. Bit pricey (Around $400), but it could very well save your motor. The second option (which even without the oil pump I haven't seen a failure with it) Is to run the March Underdrive pulley that was on the '00 Cobra R. It's around $130 for just the crank pulley. Then just find a used underdrive waterpump pulley and call it a day. No issues with cooling or charging.

A Cobra manifold is a definite yes. No bads to say about it.

Oil grade. 5w-30 or higher. Full synthetic of your choice.

Spark plugs are just a basic copper like a 764s or TR55's, don't waste money on platinum unless you are lazy. And gap them @ .054 for N/A. for nitrous, you'd of course want a colder plug. In that case I'd run a TR6.

42s would be fine once tuned.
 

MustangChris

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Big Bore has some good info here.

T/Bs do little to nothing until you hit boost. Swapping them on the boosted 4.6s yield more gains, but they have reliability problems.

Acuufab is the brand I went with, its the brand I suggest. Dragon is catching up fast, but at the end of the day it was Acuufab that did the R&D, and that's what I respect (and spend my $$ on)


avoid porting B heads, as they already flow an incredible amount. Just keep in mind that they prefer high-RPM power.

I haven't heard of these problems with U/Ds that Big Bore is talking about, but that doesnt mean he's not right. U/Ds tend to be over-priced. If you do get U/Ds be sure to get SFI approved ones. U/Ds are the ONLY item I suggest getting from Steeda.

as for the rest of Big Bore's post, I completely agree.
 

vermilion

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Udp have been noted problematic on 4vs. Exhaust/gears are bang for buck.


Sent by smoke signals
 
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FrankenStang

FrankenStang

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i like the idea of the cobra crank pulley...and i also have imrc's welded open, are the blades in there a big restriction and should i look for delete plates or are they ok asis?? and are sohc U.D's the same as the dohc???/ ive read yes and no.......and for gearing.....mines a driver, not daily but i do freeway driving 50% of the time...will 430's be too steep? i hear these 4v love the higher rpm's but if so id for shur do 410's.........
 

BigBore96

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4.30s are not too steep. The RPM difference between 4.10s and 4.30s in 5th gear is 200rpm. Which is not even noticeable. Before I did my cammed big bore I got around 26+ mpg with my cobra and 4.30s. I can't tell you what I get now as my car is untuned and I'm fighting a fuel leak problem. Should be fixed monday.
I can tell you thought that if something ever breaks in my rearend I will be switching them for 4.56s. I do not fear the gear.

Regarding the IMRCs. The blades are not a real restriction when they are open. They are fine as is. You won't notice a difference. However, if they are welded open and it throws a CEL it will be down on power. But if you ever have them off, go ahead and delete them yourself. Do not waste money on MMR deletes.

Pulleys from the SOHC/DOHC are the same.

And again, make sure you do not get a cheap underdrive crank pulley. The '00R one is nice like I said, probably the best cheap option. The steeda like previously suggested is alsoa good piece. I've got a set on my 2v.
No matter what pulley you run, whether it be a stock pulley or an underdrive. DO NOT risk revving it above 7k. That's where the problems happen. IF you ever consider going higher you need to look at a good quality fluid dampner.
 
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FrankenStang

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well..i dont have a manual...i have a 4r75 auto....i will be Jmodding the valvebody..And my 32V lsc is in My 97" thunderbird which is on its stock 4.6 sohc ecu and tune rite now untill i get a few more bolt on's and it running to perfection...I do throw alot of codes now for dleted EGR, no rear o2's and with the imrc's welded open i can feel the lag abit downlow as compared to other 32v's ive been in...im hoping a tune and the few bolt ons and gears will help that....so 430's wont be too steep for my auto?
and my exhaust for now is just 2 strait pipes into thrush mufflers...STUPID LOUD and it also needs an x or an H welding in as its actually true dual rite now..BUUUT it is 2.5 all the way back with no cats..
 

BigBore96

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Didn't think it was an auto. For an auto I'd probably go 4.10s.

Definitely tune it. It should feel a lot better. Especially if you switch it to a Cobra intake setup.
 

MustangChris

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i'd suggest a higher gear ratio for an auto. 4.30s minimum.

this is just personal preference.

As for the MM&FF magazine, the "Yo, Ken" section (or whatever the hell its called) he always suggests 3.73s for a 5spd (T5/T45) and 4.10s for an auto.

I adapt this same concept to my preferences (4.10s for 5spd, 4.30s for auto.)
 

Nightmare

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Also, dont spend your money on injectors or Mass air meeters unless you are boosted....you will not come anywhere close to pegging the MAF or maxing out the duty cycle on the injectors. The computer will limit the amount of fuel your car gets any how, and probably wont ever need more than 80% of the stock injectors if you are not boosted.

Best bet would be Gears, CAI (if you can find one or make one out of PVC), Tune, Exhaust, and Underdrives. Should give you a good gain.
 
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FrankenStang

FrankenStang

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id only be upping my injectors because im trying to work a deal for a set of BRAND NEW 42's...i know i wont see any gains or anything but having them for when i squirt the n2o just knowing i have the fuel is a piece of mind..i already have new larger fuel lines,255lph, stock fuelrail though and regulator....id also like to know if id need a vortec fmu if i ran 42's...and id like a 90mm mafs because that is the size of the intake tube on this 98 lsc motor, well its 93mm...i dont like the idea of that airgap with the 80mm even though i fit on a reducer...and the 90mm mafs are only 100 bucks NEW
 

Nightmare

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id only be upping my injectors because im trying to work a deal for a set of BRAND NEW 42's...i know i wont see any gains or anything but having them for when i squirt the n2o just knowing i have the fuel is a piece of mind..i already have new larger fuel lines,255lph, stock fuelrail though and regulator....id also like to know if id need a vortec fmu if i ran 42's...and id like a 90mm mafs because that is the size of the intake tube on this 98 lsc motor, well its 93mm...i dont like the idea of that airgap with the 80mm even though i fit on a reducer...and the 90mm mafs are only 100 bucks NEW


I understand your thoughts on this. Are you going to be running a wet, dry, or direct port system? The problem that you will encounter is that you wont reap the benifits of having the bigger injectors because the computer will regulate the fuel that the going through them any how with the factory tune. The best way to get the most out of the setup is get it tuned for N20. Dont get the vortech FMU because that will be overkill.....it is not like you are going to be running a 300 shot through it or something. Just get a good N20 tune for it and you will be fine.

Now what size tb is on the car and is it the dual blade or the single blade one? Depending on what it is will help me with the 2nd part of your question.


Frank, to be really honest with you, I would call one of the Performance shops in our area that work on these engines, like West Bend Dyno or C&M Performance, and see what they would recommend to get for your N20 plans. They are more than willing to help. If your pockets are deep, I would go to C&M for tuning, if not go to west bend Dyno. Both shops have ran my car on their dynos and do good work.
 
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FrankenStang

FrankenStang

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lol, my pockets are shallow...hense why i drive mid -late 90's mn12's that i try n make fast..lol....but anyways..my engine has the stock dual blade plenum...its a 98 mark8 lsc engine...im thinking i might just wait untill xmas and get an xcal with a custom email tune since they are so many people and companies that have the exact tune for my swap...comes to under 400 too !...i dont know if i can even run the single blade throttlebodies because i think my upper intake is the split on the inside to match it...and as far as the n2o im for shur going to run a zex kit with the management box as im very familiar with those kit,mainly the dry kit though....but since ille have larger injects and stuff i may consider going wet..and for dyno tuning by me theres a shop rite down the road that specializes in mustangs/honda swaps...Import Minded , just unshur of their prices and theres another one man company close by but cant think of its name...
 

Nightmare

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lol, my pockets are shallow...hense why i drive mid -late 90's mn12's that i try n make fast..lol....but anyways..my engine has the stock dual blade plenum...its a 98 mark8 lsc engine...im thinking i might just wait untill xmas and get an xcal with a custom email tune since they are so many people and companies that have the exact tune for my swap...comes to under 400 too !...i dont know if i can even run the single blade throttlebodies because i think my upper intake is the split on the inside to match it...and as far as the n2o im for shur going to run a zex kit with the management box as im very familiar with those kit,mainly the dry kit though....but since ille have larger injects and stuff i may consider going wet..and for dyno tuning by me theres a shop rite down the road that specializes in mustangs/honda swaps...Import Minded , just unshur of their prices and theres another one man company close by but cant think of its name...

I know Import Minded, and honestly, a shop that specializes in imports is not where I would take my car (hense the name Import minded). Give one of those shops that I told you about a call, their advice is free, and they are willing to help. If you are thinking about Beeyond Racing......STAY AWAY!!! STAY FAR FAR AWAY! Unless it is one of their shop cars, nothing good comes out of that shop.

The reason why the intake tube is so large on your car is because of the twin blade throttle body. I woudnt think of going to a single blade on that car, and imo twin blades are better than single blades. If it is good for the 03/04 cobra, the GT500, Ford GT and all new mustangs, than there must be something good about it, right?

In the end, it is your car. What I say dosnt matter because it is your money. I just see no reason to run bigger injectors or a larger mass air on your car with the setup you want to run.
 
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FrankenStang

FrankenStang

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NO! what you say does matter because you know more than me about this sht...i may be dumb but not stupid...lol, i stay away from them shops..the people that suggested them really didnt seem to know more than me even, and im a noob...another ?, are the cobra superchargers for C heads? and is my engine B heads? i know marks are but this is the lsc engine, even has the newer intake...and another thing i found out which sucks is the internals are good for only 400hp even though the block is 1000 safe...ugh..lol....1000hp 32v WOW...i like the ones with the twin turbo's one in each engine bay corner...
 

Nightmare

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NO! what you say does matter because you know more than me about this sht...i may be dumb but not stupid...lol, i stay away from them shops..the people that suggested them really didnt seem to know more than me even, and im a noob...another ?, are the cobra superchargers for C heads? and is my engine B heads? i know marks are but this is the lsc engine, even has the newer intake...and another thing i found out which sucks is the internals are good for only 400hp even though the block is 1000 safe...ugh..lol....1000hp 32v WOW...i like the ones with the twin turbo's one in each engine bay corner...

Ah you found out the weak spot of the enginge you have, however it is the same weak part of all 96-10 mod motors....the hyper t pistons lol. The safe range for the stock bottom end on a mod motor is about 400-450 rwhp. I think Chris can answer the question about installing the cobra blower on those heads. I dont think you can, and would have to run the 03/04 cobra heads. However I am not 100% sure.
 

BigBore96

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Yeah your lsc is B heads. internals should be fine for 450 to the wheel. If you get that high just make sure the tune is spot on. Anything past that is asking for it.

Make the switch to the cobra intake. You won't regret it. They can be picked up for a few hundred bucks.
You do not need/want to buy a single blade throttle body. Your intake is split. But so is the cobra. A dremel will open it up but the money spent for 0 gain is pointless.

You won't need a bigger maf at all, but, if you want a bigger one to match your bigger piping then get a lightning maf and a canned tune will fix it no problems. It would purely be cosmetic for your levels.

As far as superchargers. If you switch to a cobra intake you can run a lot of them that fit the 96-98 Cobras. I say a lot because it being in a thunderbird you will probably have to custom fab a few things if going intercooled.
You can't run the m112 cobra blower on your B heads. But... you would be better off with a intercooled vortech or procharger. They will outperform a stock eaton all day. Not to mention you can find deals on vortechs/prochargers for around 1500 bucks for a good condition used one.
Turbo's are going to be a custom job all the way. Don't bother until it's a build bottom end.

I you are planning on spraying it, you won't really need a larger injector. But it won't hurt anything. Something you can do instead of 42s. Find a set of low mile Termi take out 39#s for like $100 and like $25 for the adapters and you'd be good to go.
 

2lowsn

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i'd suggest a higher gear ratio for an auto. 4.30s minimum.

this is just personal preference.

As for the MM&FF magazine, the "Yo, Ken" section (or whatever the hell its called) he always suggests 3.73s for a 5spd (T5/T45) and 4.10s for an auto.

I adapt this same concept to my preferences (4.10s for 5spd, 4.30s for auto.)
That's exactly word for word what i was told. Seems to be the opinion with most aouto trans owners. 4.30
 

Nightmare

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That's exactly word for word what i was told. Seems to be the opinion with most aouto trans owners. 4.30

Funny thing is I got into a conversation about gearing with my tuner the other day. He said that for my application, and the amount of miles that I put on the car, 4.10's or higher will be over kill.....untill I get a 6 speed
 
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FrankenStang

FrankenStang

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ya, maby ille just do 36lb injectors....i have some anyways maby ille just save them for when i get my tune...
 

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