engine management systems?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by ttocs, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I am close to being able to turn the key but that raises the question of tuning. We have a dyno in town but I have heard just enough mixed reactions about them to want to try them out. Beyond that this is the 3rd tune I have paid for and it makes me wonder when it would be a good idea to go with one of the self learning/tuning systems that is available now. I looked at andersons fords pms system, holley hp efi, Fast, edelbrock a little bit and not sure what would be best. I know they are all overkill for what I need now but I do have plans later to up the HP as I am sure everyone does. Anyone have any experience with any of the systems to comment?
     
  2. white95

    white95 Apex Junky Admin

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    Hit Keith Varin up about a Megasquirt setup and he can tune it as well!

    [MENTION=8201]Addermk2[/MENTION]
     
  3. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    can't believe I forgot megasquirt.
     
  4. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Way I see it. Megasquirt is the users more hands on, dig in type. While holley is plug in and play. I can see the qualities of both. Megasquirt being the biggest learning curve and to me that sounds fun. On the flip side, holley simplicity learn on the fly, still a small learning curve, but not as in depth as the other
     
  5. duh09

    duh09 Legend

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    What are your exact plans for the car currently and into the future?

    Are you wanting to stay basic-Ford style setups or wanting to do more exotic stuff like coil on packs, dizzy-less setups, multiple injectors, etc?

    Are you wanting to tune the car yourself and learn or take it to a dyno and let a professional do it?

    Megasquirt makes a plug and play ECU for our cars. Holley will require some wiring. Moates Quarterhorse is also an option. I feel like Anderson PMS was probably a sweet setup a few years ago, but I think the other options will give you a lot more features and flexibility but I could be wrong. I don't know of a Edelbrock ECU setup that would be able to match the other options.

    My experience with a couple basic self-learning jobs is it's good enough to get it loaded on a trailer or MAYBE drive to the dyno to get it done. I had a buddy who wanted to be cheap try and used a self-learning Megasquirt based system on his turbo Miata and found himself very quickly parting that car out due to it leaning out and going pop. I haven't really heard of many people having fantastic results out of those sorts of systems except in basic "all-in-one" carb replacement sorts of deals and I wouldn't be surprised if a tuner could get more out of those setups too. I've tried playing with tunes when I had my RSX with K-pro on it and realized very quickly that I was in over my head but K-Pro is VERY user friendly and had a lot of guides to help you through the fine tuning and I had the car running fairly well from a modified canned tune. I've touched Binary Editor a little (software that a lot of people use with the Moates Quarterhorse) with my buddies DSM and it was usable, but felt a little like jumping in the deep end as far as trying to figure it out on the go.

    If you want to do it yourself, I don't think you're going to go wrong with any of the bigger choices like Holley, Megasquirt or Moates with our cars. If you're going to be taking it somewhere (or using email and datalogs), I'd find out what the tuner recommends and prefers using.
     
  6. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    at the moment I am trying to keep it as simple as I can. I would love to up the HP later when the bottom end and tranny can handle it and know there will be more tunes later. I would prefer to go to a dyno to have it done and confirmed but like I said a reliable dyno is a days trip there/back and I do not travel well.

    I agree with the anderson ford pms as I was looking at it at nmra. There is still way too much for me to screw up on that from what I can tell. The Holley system from what I have read seems about the most user friendly and I hope to be able to go to holley for classes on it as well. The edelbrock I just discovered the other night as I do not see much about it really.

    I am not looking to have the fastest car at the track/show. Really I would just like reliability and the ability to upgrade later with out having to keep putting money into the tune.
     
  7. MIKE93SVT

    MIKE93SVT Member

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    megasquirt is where it's at. it tuner studio also has self learning and will dial in your a/f ratio for you in small increments

    Mike
     
  8. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    can you say what is better or do you just have more experience with it?
     
  9. duh09

    duh09 Legend

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    If a dyno is out of the question, have you thought about finding a tuner who would work with you through datalogging and email? It would take a little longer to get it dialed in but you would that you've had someone with knowledge getting the car right instead of guessing. Not trying to talk you out of self-tuning at all, because it is fun and somewhat rewarding and you've def done everything else on the car, but it's a lot to try to tackle at once to get the car running initially, or at least it was for me. But again, you've tackled it all on your car, why not do literally everything? lol
     
  10. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I have considered it and while its cheaper and works for some reason I would rather go the DIY then this rout and I can't explain why. Guess I never met an email tuner well enough as it would be easier and faster.
     
  11. 95opal

    95opal Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if hes still doing remote tunes but [email protected] is one of the best in the country with the 94-95 cars. Might want to look him up if you decide not to tune it yourself. You will have to datalog which means youll need a wideband and some software.
     
  12. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I already have all the gauges that would be needed for date logging. Just never had a need to do it till now. Ah damn too many decisions.....
     
  13. MIKE93SVT

    MIKE93SVT Member

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    i've had experience with moates, pms, sct and megasquirt.

    PMS is a piggy back and tricks the stock computer. bottom line is it's an outdated bandaid and doesn't do what modern technology allows

    MS is a standalone but keeps all your oem features like a/c. it is user friendly with a lot of online support. it can handle a two step, launch control, much more. it is not limited to the capabilities of the oem computer like the other programmers. unless you have bob kurgan tuning your car with SCT, it's the best thing available IMO

    Mike
     
  14. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I spoke to the people at anderson at NMRA and they had a great deal going on them that weekend but I had heard that there was better especially for what I need.
     
  15. Addermk2

    Addermk2 Well-Known Member

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    We all know that I've been a huge advocate of the Moates QH/BE setup for years.

    I ran an MS2 in my Cobra when it had a 302 in it, and the system was great. a bit clunky... but it got the job done. When I swapped my 347 in, i could not get the damn car running worth a shit. I pulled the MS out, tossed in a calibrated maf and limped it to a tuner.
    Fast forward a little bit, I wanted control over my car. I ended up buying a brand new QH v1.3 and Binary Editor 2009. By far, the best money I had ever spent on my car.

    Now, i have the 351w in the cobra with a 74mm PTE turbo. Swapped in a 4R70W from a 99 exploder... and its all run on a W4H0 with a QH v1.6 and tuned with BE 5.93! (BE2012)
    I have finally conceded to the fact that my build is slightly beyond the capabilities of the QH and stock PCM. And its not because it cant get the job done, but rather because there are new features that i would like, that the stock PCM just cant do. Things like Boost Control, true flex fuel, 2 step, map switching.... etc. Now with all of that being said, I have also recently purchased a 2002 V6 convertible. The QH will be going into this car to support the up coming pushrod V8 swap.

    My Cobra will be using a pair of Microsquirts to control both the engine and transmission. I'll also be building a digital CAN gauge cluster. The new cluster will poll data directly from the MS systems, and will need no external pieces to make it functional (unlike my current BE + VGA digital dash).

    I'm making almost 800hp on a factory PCM. If you arent planning on doing some regular racing, that will require extraordinary features... I'd highly suggest the QH+BE Combo.