Got a 351W question...

[TRUUBLE]

I just like the simplicity of the system. All I have is an EGT gauge. The only things I really look at to tune the car are EGTs and the plugs.

Now, if I were in a heads up class, I might think about EFI in order to maximize the potential of the car. But, for bracket racing, the simpler the better.

 

[realitygt]

your stock radiator off your 5.0 will work just fine with the 351, they are basically the same engine

would it be nearly the same swap from the 281 modular to the 351w? the only things I would see that would cause a problem would be the block, and everything connecting to it right.

 

[Schiffy]

all the brackets from the 302 will swap over... you have to use a spacer on the balancer i read, but everything else will bolt right on over...

 

[Paul]

I don't have a spacer on my 351W-swapped 94 GT.

 

[Schiffy]

I don't have a spacer on my 351W-swapped 94 GT.

really? i read that off an article... cool, i can nix that on the list... So tell me, I assume since we had the EFI/Carb talk earlier, you went EFI, but as far as swapping everything over, can you give me a list? I know i'll need headers, and an oil pan. assuming thats it, what headers do you run, and what oil pan is on yours?

 

[Steven]

Not really. Any of the good aftermarket standalones couldn't handle it no problem.

FAST XFI, AEM, Big Stuff 3, etc...

If they can manage 6 second car running 240 mph, Tad's little 9 second NA motor would be easy. Of course, he'd have to switch to EFI instead of mechanical fuel injection. For his purposes though, I'm sure he's happy with his setup.

Me personally though, I would never build a racecar or streetcar without EFI. It will always be able to do things that carburetors and mechanical fuel injection can't.

Paul.

don't see what your getting at paul. A carb'd car will be just as fast, if not faster then an EFI car hands down. Unless your going turbo or supercharger, theres no real benefit to running EFI. Diagnose itself is crap, because to run EFI, you need to have the parts on it that break, just to run the damn thing. The best part about a carb is well, its simple, easy to work on, can make gobs of power, and still be reliable. Don't understand the hate on carbs lately.

 

[Schiffy]

Not really. Any of the good aftermarket standalones couldn't handle it no problem.

FAST XFI, AEM, Big Stuff 3, etc...

If they can manage 6 second car running 240 mph, Tad's little 9 second NA motor would be easy. Of course, he'd have to switch to EFI instead of mechanical fuel injection. For his purposes though, I'm sure he's happy with his setup.

Me personally though, I would never build a racecar or streetcar without EFI. It will always be able to do things that carburetors and mechanical fuel injection can't.

Paul.

don't see what your getting at paul. A carb'd car will be just as fast, if not faster then an EFI car hands down. Unless your going turbo or supercharger, theres no real benefit to running EFI. Diagnose itself is crap, because to run EFI, you need to have the parts on it that break, just to run the damn thing. The best part about a carb is well, its simple, easy to work on, can make gobs of power, and still be reliable. Don't understand the hate on carbs lately.

You have a PM :banana:

 

[Paul]

don't see what your getting at paul. A carb'd car will be just as fast, if not faster then an EFI car hands down. Unless your going turbo or supercharger, theres no real benefit to running EFI. Diagnose itself is crap, because to run EFI, you need to have the parts on it that break, just to run the damn thing. The best part about a carb is well, its simple, easy to work on, can make gobs of power, and still be reliable. Don't understand the hate on carbs lately.

None of the fastest cars in the world run carbs. Not F1. Not Top Fuel. Not WRC. Not LeMans. Nobody.

Only those races conducted under sanctioning bodies that REQUIRE carbs actually run them. This has been hashed out 68460540187 times on the internet, and I don't really care to do it here again.

Let me know when your carburetor has integrated boost control, individual cylinder tuning, AFR control, and programmable timing maps.

It's not hate - it's just modern technology.

really? i read that off an article... cool, i can nix that on the list... So tell me, I assume since we had the EFI/Carb talk earlier, you went EFI, but as far as swapping everything over, can you give me a list? I know i'll need headers, and an oil pan. assuming thats it, what headers do you run, and what oil pan is on yours?

There's a sticky in the tech section that covers this. I run a Moroso 7 qt oil pan in mine. If I had more money at the time, I'd run a Canton kicked-out sump pan instead. I have Accufab mid-lengths with custom exhaust. I used to have swap shorty headers that worked well too - don't remember who made them.

Paul.

 

[Schiffy]

don't see what your getting at paul. A carb'd car will be just as fast, if not faster then an EFI car hands down. Unless your going turbo or supercharger, theres no real benefit to running EFI. Diagnose itself is crap, because to run EFI, you need to have the parts on it that break, just to run the damn thing. The best part about a carb is well, its simple, easy to work on, can make gobs of power, and still be reliable. Don't understand the hate on carbs lately.

None of the fastest cars in the world run carbs. Not F1. Not Top Fuel. Not WRC. Not LeMans. Nobody.

Only those races conducted under sanctioning bodies that REQUIRE carbs actually run them. This has been hashed out 68460540187 times on the internet, and I don't really care to do it here again.

Let me know when your carburetor has integrated boost control, individual cylinder tuning, AFR control, and programmable timing maps.

It's not hate - it's just modern technology.

really? i read that off an article... cool, i can nix that on the list... So tell me, I assume since we had the EFI/Carb talk earlier, you went EFI, but as far as swapping everything over, can you give me a list? I know i'll need headers, and an oil pan. assuming thats it, what headers do you run, and what oil pan is on yours?

There's a sticky in the tech section that covers this. I run a Moroso 7 qt oil pan in mine. If I had more money at the time, I'd run a Canton kicked-out sump pan instead. I have Accufab mid-lengths with custom exhaust. I used to have swap shorty headers that worked well too - don't remember who made them.

Paul.

Awesome, thanks...I'm going to add all that to my list of stuff... LOL... I saw BBK made a full length headers for the swap... I'm going to go print out the sticky now...

 

[Steven]

don't see what your getting at paul. A carb'd car will be just as fast, if not faster then an EFI car hands down. Unless your going turbo or supercharger, theres no real benefit to running EFI. Diagnose itself is crap, because to run EFI, you need to have the parts on it that break, just to run the damn thing. The best part about a carb is well, its simple, easy to work on, can make gobs of power, and still be reliable. Don't understand the hate on carbs lately.

None of the fastest cars in the world run carbs. Not F1. Not Top Fuel. Not WRC. Not LeMans. Nobody.

Only those races conducted under sanctioning bodies that REQUIRE carbs actually run them. This has been hashed out 68460540187 times on the internet, and I don't really care to do it here again.

Let me know when your carburetor has integrated boost control, individual cylinder tuning, AFR control, and programmable timing maps.

It's not hate - it's just modern technology.

Paul.

I understand what your saying, but at the same time, when do you require things like that? Only the most SPECIFIC and technical type of person will get into that, it almost seems like with all of the damn measurements of the motor, were just trying to make it all complicated and all. The pull from a 4bbl on a big old FE big block can NEVER be replaced by efi, it just cant do it. The EFI is to smooth and precise and contained. When my 750 double pumper kicks down, and hits the mechanical secondarys, all hell breaks loose and its balls to the walls hang on, i've yet to have a single efi car do that for me, even my 400+ hp z28 didnt do it. Nor did the countless gt500's i've worked on and road in and drove

 

[Schiffy]

ok fella's... I asked for help. lets not argue over whats better, and whats easier... everyone has their opinions... just help me out damnit!!! :wall:

 

[Paul]

I understand what your saying, but at the same time, when do you require things like that?

When you're trying to squeeze every last iota of performance out of a combination. Like racing for example.

The pull from a 4bbl on a big old FE big block can NEVER be replaced by efi, it just cant do it.

Why not? Does your 750DP flow more air than the 90mm Accufab on my 422? Airflow is airflow. The motor doesn't know any better.


Nothing will change your mind. Enjoy your carburetor.

Paul.

 

[Schiffy]

Alright... So i have found out so far.... oil pan, balancer, flywheel, and headers... I also know the distributor is different(The engine comes with it) and the Intake(lower) is wider than a 302, BUT the upper intake can be used when matched with a lower to fit the wider gap on the 351...(however, it has a lower, and is carb'd, so upper is no issue) so as of right now i need a flywheel, headers and oil pan... anybody know what size flywheel I need?

 

[Paul]

28 oz flywheel.

351W distributor

28 oz balancer

Different belt

Drop Solid Motor Mounts (optional)

 

[Schiffy]

28 oz flywheel.

351W distributor

28 oz balancer

Different belt

Drop Solid Motor Mounts (optional)

I thought about the drop Engine mounts, I've got a 2" cowl as it is, but it was still something i was thinking about. isn't the 302 Flywheel a 28oz? if so, i can have the spare one i've got turned and it'll be ready to bolt on. will my brand new(less than 3000 miles) King Cobra heavy duty clutch work with the 351?

 

[Paul]

Modern EFI 302 engines are 50 oz.

The engine mounts are optional based on your desired driveability characteristics and hood clearance issues.

Your clutch will work fine.

 

[Schiffy]

I've got hood clearance, so that shouldn't be an issue, but i do like the idea of the lowered mounts for center of gravity purposes... so since my car is a '95 302, it should all be 50oz, and interchangeable then, by what you say.

 

[Paul]

No, your balancer and flywheel are NOT interchangeable. You must buy 28 oz stuff for a 351.

 

[Schiffy]

:wall: DOH!!

 

[WUZa5oh]

If you swap the SN95/302 accessory brackets over to the 351(you should, it's easier), you will need a spacer on the balancer to line up the belt. Hooker swap shorties are a direct bolt on and you can use the rest of your current exhaust(if you have shorties now, if not go with the Fox long tubes and exhaust). As long as you have a 28oz flywheel, you can use any 5.0 clutch. I used Energy Suspension motor mounts and have 1" left of space with a Cervini's 3.5" cowl hood, so the drop mounts will def. help fit it under your 2" hood. I used FRPP oil pan swap kit for SN95, cost 120$ complete, the only bad part is that it's a 5 qt. pan(pick up and all). Also a small detail people often forget, for 6$ get a 90 degree thermostat housing, the 45s will rub the belt on the hose in a SN95. I run an almost stock 351 in my 94 with A/C(cut 1/2 inch off the battery tray for clearance), power steering, etc.

If you order a 28oz balancer for a 351 in a SN, it usually comes with the spacer. At least mine did, it's a FRPP SFI balancer.
Oh, and the clearance thing, I have a full, very tall, tubular GT40 setup. I don't know about carbs, but I've read about some fitting them under stock hoods. Not sure on that one, I can only talk about my personal experiences