Ok... What did I do wrong?

Discussion in 'Suspension and Brakes' started by Caboose302, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    Just finished installing the Strange coilovers which included:
    Strange 10 way adjustable struts
    10" 350lb hyper coil springs
    Strange coil over kit.

    Why the hell do I have such a 4x4 stance? Every time I try to lower it the spring loosens up and rattles around when not compressed. I'm pretty sure I messed up somewhere but not sure where.
    I have 2 of the 1/2" bushings underneath the CC plates to get the upper bearing assembly to clear the strut tower and a 1/8" bushing on top of the MM caster camber plates like it suggests.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. lutter94

    lutter94 Well-Known Member

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    it looks great!
     
  3. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    lol, Glad you think so. I hate it. Also right after I posted this I drove it and it still has a horrible clunking noise. Someone on Corral said that the MM bearing has a larger diameter housing that the shaft on the shock so it moves around a bit. I guess I'll be taking it back apart tonight to see. May just put the springs back in it until I can figure it out.
     
  4. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    If youve tighten any new bushings tight while the suspension is free/dropped, such as being on a car lift,...those rotational points are keeping the suspension from sitting like it should. Put the suspension on jackstands and loosen/retighten all bushings.
     
  5. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Is the clunking actually a clunking? Meaning this: on my driver side, if I turn the wheel all the way to left, my coil spring rubs slighly on the frame rail near the shock tower. It can make a noise. Are you driving straight when you hear the clunking? I can't speak to the Strange struts - I am using Koni SA's with MM coil-over kit and MM C/C plates - I do not get any noise when driving straight or turning.

    How much adjustment do you have left? And you mentioned that when you lower it more, the spring comes loose? Mine are set here:

    Edit: Crap, I don't have any new pics of where the car sits and where the coil-overs in front are. I'll take a couple pics when I get home and post it.

    Where does your collar sit currently?

    This is true for rubber OEM bushings only. If one has used poly or delrin bush's in the FLCA's then they can be tightened at any time.
     
  6. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    The clunk is when I'm going straight down the road. This is where the collar sits as of right now. [​IMG]
    And yes I tightened up the lock ring before driving it lol.
    Right now the fender sits about 27.5". When I turned it down to 26" the spring had a slight amount of contact when the weight of the car was on it,but when the tire was let down just a little the spring would unseat and rattle around. I wouldn't think I'd have to get a 12" spring to go lower, would I?
    Talked to Strange about it and they said 10" 350lbs was too much unless I have a big block (has he seen the size of a mod motor?) , and that he recommended a 12 or 14 at 175lbs. That sounds waaaay too soft for me. This isn't a drag car...
    I'll try to loosen everything back up and retighten it tonight. I still have stock A arms and didn't loosen them up, but maybe something in the CC plate is binding?
     
  7. McCloud

    McCloud Active Member

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    I'd try taking one of 1/2" spacers out from underneath the c/c plate and placing it on top. You shouldn't be contacting the shock tower unless your camber is extremely positive. With your set up now, you may be bottoming out the shock before the spring is actually compressing. Try adding one of the spacers up top and see if it helps.

    Edit: coilovers don't require as high of a spring rate due to their mounting location, the further out on the a-arm provides a longer lever arm and doesn't require as much force...if that makes sense.
     
  8. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Well it looks like you should have ton more adjustment. And lowering the collar should mean that the car sits lower - the spring should continue to provide pressure. If you lower the collar, and the spring becomes loose, that essentially means the strut has bottomed out. Otherwise, the car would sit lower and the spring will have tension. So it sounds like you might have an issue with the strut? 26" should be no problem, I'm currently sitting at like ~26.5" and can go lower if I want.

    -Or-

    When you crank down on the collar, and the car is sitting on the ground, is the spring tight? But if you hit a bump, it becomes loose? There's something you can do - you can run a helper spring or a tender spring. I'm running a helper spring on my rear coil-overs; I'm pretty sure you can run them on the front as well. This will keep your spring from unseating in a droop situation.

    350 lbs isn't too much or it could be, depends on what you do with your car. If you track it, then 350 is not too much. If it's a DD street car, then maybe 250 to 275 or so would be better. 175 lbs seems too soft to me. And running a longer spring, 12 or 14", is effectively the same thing as using a helper spring. FWIW, my car is a track car that also sees some street driving (though it is not my DD), and I'm running 375 lbs 10" coils up front. Now, maybe 350 lbs is too much for the Strange struts to handle, that I don't know.

    He can remove spacers as long as the hat doesn't contact the CC plates/bolts. If removing the spacer causes contact, then he can't really remove the spacer, it sort of needs to be there.

    And that is correct, coil-overs don't require that high of a spring rate, but 175 is pretty soft for the fronts. A "stock position" spring running 800 lbs or 900 lbs is not unheard of for cars that like the corners while still keeping reasonable street manners. And equivalent coil-over would be around the 200 to 225 range (please take this with a grain of salt). Dedicated track cars, depending on setup, will run over 400 lbs coil-overs. 175 seems to be more of a drag setup to me. One of the advantages of the coil-over is the ability to run a stiffer spring without the negative effects of an equivalently stiff spring on the stock setup. IMO, if you are going to run 175 lbs coil-overs or thereabouts, you are probably better off sticking to regular springs. It will be cheaper, and if you want to go lower just cut a coil off or something.
     
  9. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    The car will be driven a lot but not every day. Usually on cruises and I'm thinking about getting into track days once I get the rest of the suspension refreshed. I have the Fox struts so I hope they shouldn't be bottoming out. Initially I had it a 26" and it seemed fine until I took it out on the road. When the car is sitting on the ground there is tension but when the wheel drops a bit it loses tension and becomes loose. Do you think stiffening the rebound on the strut would help? I think I've seen helper springs on the front, I'll have to find out who sells them.
    McCloud The bearing cap has to have the two spacers or else it hits the bolts on the CC plates.
     
  10. McCloud

    McCloud Active Member

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    Right I understand that. I had the same exact situation he had with my old drag setup (UPR k, fox a-arms, strange struts and 14" 175 lb coilovers). I could never lower my car. The spring would lose tension as I lowered the collar and it'd clunk over everything. The fox arms brought my struts inward and to a more vertical position. I had to run the same spacer orientation as he has now to avoid hitting the upper spring seat on my shock tower...not the plate. I originally had SN95 spec struts in and then switched to fox spec struts and that helped some. Now with MM coilovers and Bilsteins I'm running a 10" 300lb spring with no clunks with this spacer orientation.
    [​IMG]

    You can see I have both 1/2" spacers up top. No clunking whatsoever. That's why I'm saying I think could be the strut bottoming out due to the spacer orientation. Having a picture of the bottom of the c/c plate would help so we could what kind of clearance he has.
     
  11. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    If you can live with it on the street and your struts are fine with it, keep the 350. If it's too much for the street or you drive over cobble-stoned streets or something all the time you may want something softer.

    Eibach Helper springs at Amazon here. I'm not sure what diameter springs you have up front, 2.5" diameter is pretty common, so you probably want the HELPER250. But confirm your diameter before buying. If you want to keep the 350 but have a little softer feel on the streets, look into an Eibach Tender spring. These will make your coil-over spring act more like a progressive spring. However, for racing, I don't recommend it because you don't get a linear spring rate and it might be harder to feel what the car is doing. If you just want to keep the springs from unseating, then use the Eibach Helper spring. The helper spring should look like a really thin spring - if it looks like it's thick, that's probably a Tender spring.

    Adjusting the rebound might help if it's currently set to max soft. If you dial in less rebound, your springs might not unseat as much, but I doubt it it will actually fix it. If they unseat even if the wheel droops a little, I don't think changing the rebound settings will help. You will need a physically longer spring (or a helper spring).

    Do you have bump stops on the front struts? It looks like you do from the pics.
     
  12. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    I do have the bumpstops in. I'll order the helper springs and see if that helps. I found the hypercoil helpers for half the price. I'll pick those up and the spacers and see if it helps. Until then I'll see if I can add in some more preload and drive it the way it is, and if not i'll just throw the old suspension on it until I get them in. Thank you very much for the help
     
  13. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Sure thing, man, good luck! I hope it works out for you :)
     
  14. McCloud

    McCloud Active Member

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    Yeah I'm curious as to how these helper springs are going to work. I have the same plates as you and slightly softer springs but I don't need 2 spacers underneath the plates. Must be difference in the coilover kits.
     
  15. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    just ordered the springs and the spacer so I'll update the thread when they get in. Hopefully this will take care of it.
    An odd thing I noticed too, is on MM website on their Coilover install they show a flange that needs to be bent out of the way on the shock tower. I don't have that. I'm going to take it back apart today anyway and get a better look. Maybe I missed something.
     
  16. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    This is what they look like; I have them on my rear coil-overs. Notice the smaller spring at the top of the shock, near the hat:

    [​IMG]


    And in this pic, it's compressed more:

    [​IMG]


    With the car completely on the ground, the helper springs are fully compressed and act as the seat for the spring. When droop happens, the helper springs unload a little, just enough to keep tension on the spring and keep it seated. Because the helper spring is so small, it doesn't contribute anything to the spring rate (unlike a Tender spring). It is literally there to keep the main coil in place.
     
  17. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. If these don't work I'm just going to sell them and buy the MM kit if I can't exchange the springs.
     
  18. Addermk2

    Addermk2 Well-Known Member

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    I know im really late to the party... but a 350lb coil is WAY too much. You should be running a 12" 250 or 275
     
  19. Addermk2

    Addermk2 Well-Known Member

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    You should have the helper spring on the bottom... not the top.
     
  20. Caboose302

    Caboose302 Well-Known Member

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    Why is a 350 way too much? What are the disadvantages other than a rough ride? Are you saying that could be part of my issue?