PI Heads or NPI Ported?

[Johnny Langton]

From my heads:
Ported NPI F5AE castings,3.55" bore,slightly oversized valves, and swirl dam intact:
head flow numbers:
intake:
.100"=62cfm
.200"=117cfm
.300"=164cfm
.400"=196cfm
.500"=214cfm
.600"=227cfm
exhaust:
.100=62cfm
.200=101cfm
.300=141cfm
.400=155cfm
.500=167cfm
.600=178cfm

 

[Mustangman9812]

Awesome Johnny Thanks! Ok Guys I have when though the numbers and P&P'd Non-Pi's do outflow Patriot P&P PI Stage 3's here is the numbers.

Comparing P&P Non-PI's, Patriot PI Stage II's, & Patriot PI Stage III's

Ported NPI F5AE castings,3.55" bore,slightly oversized valves, and swirl dam intact:
head flow numbers:
intake:
.100"=62cfm
.200"=117cfm
.300"=164cfm
.400"=196cfm
.500"=214cfm
.600"=227cfm
exhaust:
.100=62cfm
.200=101cfm
.300=141cfm
.400=155cfm
.500=167cfm
.600=178cfm

(Thanks Johnny!)

The Patriot Performance Stage II 1020 Superflow Bench 3.552 Bore Cylinder Heads fit all PI Romeo Block 4.6L/5.4L SOHC 2V Ford Motors, such as the 2001-2004 Mustang GT. They come complete, just add a set of high performance cams of your choice and you are ace!
Specifications:
· Intake Valve: Patriot Performance Custom 1.78" 6000 Series Stainless Steel
· Exhaust Valve: Patriot Performance Custom 1.452" 6000 Series Stainless Steel
· Springs: .600" Lift Stage II
· Retainers: Titanium
· Valve Airflow
· Intake Valve
· .100 Lift: 64cfm
· .200 Lift: 115cfm
· .300 Lift: 162cfm
· .400 Lift: 192cfm
· .500 Lift: 213cfm
· .550 Lift: 217cfm
· .600 Lift: 218cfm
· Exhaust Valve:
· .100 Lift: 52cfm
· .200 Lift: 98cfm
· .300 Lift: 135cfm
· .400 Lift: 162cfm
· .500 Lift: 182cfm
· .550 Lift: 189cfm
· .600 Lift: 193cfm


The Patriot Performance Stage III 1020 Superflow Bench 3.552 Bore Cylinder Heads fit all PI Romeo Block 4.6L/5.4L SOHC 2V Ford Motors, such as the 2001-2004 Mustang GT. They come complete, just add a set of high performance cams of your choice and you are ace!
Specifications:
· Intake Valve: Patriot Performance Custom 1.84" 6000 Series Stainless Steel
· Exhaust Valve: Patriot Performance Custom 1.452" 6000 Series Stainless Steel
· Springs: .600" Lift Stage III
· Retainers: Titanium
Valve Airflow
Intake Valve
.100 Lift: 68cfm
.200 Lift: 121cfm
.300 Lift: 169cfm
.400 Lift: 203cfm
.500 Lift: 219cfm
.550 Lift: 223cfm
.600 Lift: 226cfm
Exhaust Valve:
.100 Lift: 53cfm
.200 Lift: 100cfm
.300 Lift: 138cfm
.400 Lift: 165cfm
.500 Lift: 186cfm
.550 Lift: 196cfm
.600 Lift: 201cfm

The only thing I see is they dont flow as much on the Exhaust side

What yeh think guys?

This should be a sticky

 

[Johnny Langton]

NPI's work slightly better for a N/A application,and the PI works slightly better for a power adder application.
JL

 

[Brian95SVT]

So even if I wanted to go blown down the road J.R. you're saying if I did a PI swap and did raise my CR to 10.3:1 then put a blower on top of that I could run it safely? But it wouldn't be as good at the track?

 

[Mustangman9812]

Well its still going to be fast no matter what, only thing is its really what you want. I was just putting the numbers out so people can see that a Ported set on "Crappy" NPI Heads flow better than a $1,489.00 set of Stage III CNC Ported PI's. Which I think in cool, and hopefully this will answer questions on what route people wanta go.

Edit: 1 thing is that Patriot doesnt recommend Stage III's on a stock bore motor due to Intake size.

 

[Brian95SVT]

Well I knew that they flowed better but I was referring to CR differences that J.R. was talking about.
He said with higher CR you get better throttle response and gas mileage and all that and you have to run less lbs of boost to achieve your goal.... I was going to just stick with NPI heads and port them but idk...

 

[Mustangman9812]

What are your goals? Times? Horsespower? I understand you want a blower but getting a set of NPI's ported good around here is like $1000 bucks when you can buy PI already ported for $1200 dollars its best to just do that. What he was saying is with higher compression ratio it doesnt take as much boost to get to your goal because compression is doing some of the work for you. Just because someone thinks 15lbs of boost is cool to say you are running you dont need too. A motor needs to be built extremely well and have one heck of a fuel system and low compression to run that many lbs of boost. A well setup 12lbs boost car will destory a not setup well 15lb boost car any day, and thats if the 15lb of boost car holds up.

 

[Brian95SVT]

Goals I want around 500 hp, in the 10s if I can.
I could get the Patriot PI Ported cams for like 1200 or so + shipping so yeah I get you on that.
I would love to run like 8lbs and make as much as people runnin 15 haha that would be funny

 

[Mustangman9812]

The Ported NPI's is not your head Period. Some sort of Ported PI's will be what gets you there

 

[Brian95SVT]

Well... can you clarify? So I understand fully why that is..

 

[Mustangman9812]

On a Forced Induction Setup - Intake flow is good but not what you should be focusing on, the Exhaust flow is what you should be looking at. The Non-PI heads dont have as good of Exhaust flow as PI's Port & Poslished. This is better because the blower is forcing the air in but you have to be able to get the air out to get more in. So if you dont have a great exhaust you are really hurting what your blower is good for.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Well its still going to be fast no matter what, only thing is its really what you want. I was just putting the numbers out so people can see that a Ported set on "Crappy" NPI Heads flow better than a $1,489.00 set of Stage III CNC Ported PI's. Which I think in cool, and hopefully this will answer questions on what route people wanta go.

Edit: 1 thing is that Patriot doesnt recommend Stage III's on a stock bore motor due to Intake size.

1. Patriot sucks, period. That's why their stage II head cost less than most stage ones, and flows the same. If the valves aren't falling out of the guides when you get them.
2. The crappy heads the JL is speaking of, go for around 2500-3k nowadays, and you need to get on a waiting list.

Just putting that in perspective.

 

[Brian95SVT]

Well its still going to be fast no matter what, only thing is its really what you want. I was just putting the numbers out so people can see that a Ported set on "Crappy" NPI Heads flow better than a $1,489.00 set of Stage III CNC Ported PI's. Which I think in cool, and hopefully this will answer questions on what route people wanta go.

Edit: 1 thing is that Patriot doesnt recommend Stage III's on a stock bore motor due to Intake size.

1. Patriot sucks, period. That's why their stage II head cost less than most stage ones, and flows the same. If the valves aren't falling out of the guides when you get them.
2. The crappy heads the JL is speaking of, go for around 2500-3k nowadays, and you need to get on a waiting list.

Just putting that in perspective.

Well, if they suck... who do you recommend or just get PI heads and go from there?

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Let me be clear on Patriot, they don't just suck because their number's are sub-par, quality is a major issue with them as well. It's very nice that they are quick to fix the problems, but when you are changing head's, you kind of only want to do it once. You don't want heads that will drop a valve into your cylinder and ruin your shortblock. Another set of fixed head's is little consolation when you need a new bottom end now too, lost your job cuz you couldn't get to work, etc...

But the number's up there are for the best NPI's, and the worst PI's, even though the trend is true just the same, just not that dramatic. Anyway, reputable companies include Modular Power House, Total Engine Airflow, Foxlake (my choice) and Livernois.

Most people driving these car's nowadays, are driving them because they are cheap, and want the cheapest solution. A PI head swap is cheaper than anything, and they can support around 450 hp pretty easily.

Here's an example of a good port program on a set of PI's

Flow Data
TEA Stage 3 4.6 With Guides
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 56.2 54.6
.200" 112.3 100.3
.300" 160.7 138.6
.400" 202 167.1
.500" 226.3 187.9
.550" 235 196.3
.600" 242.7 204.5

 

[Brian95SVT]

Let me be clear on Patriot, they don't just suck because their number's are sub-par, quality is a major issue with them as well. It's very nice that they are quick to fix the problems, but when you are changing head's, you kind of only want to do it once. You don't want heads that will drop a valve into your cylinder and ruin your shortblock. Another set of fixed head's is little consolation when you need a new bottom end now too, lost your job cuz you couldn't get to work, etc...

But the number's up there are for the best NPI's, and the worst PI's, even though the trend is true just the same, just not that dramatic. Anyway, reputable companies include Modular Power House, Total Engine Airflow, Foxlake (my choice) and Livernois.

Most people driving these car's nowadays, are driving them because they are cheap, and want the cheapest solution. A PI head swap is cheaper than anything, and they can support around 450 hp pretty easily.

Here's an example of a good port program on a set of PI's

Flow Data
TEA Stage 3 4.6 With Guides
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 56.2 54.6
.200" 112.3 100.3
.300" 160.7 138.6
.400" 202 167.1
.500" 226.3 187.9
.550" 235 196.3
.600" 242.7 204.5

The problem with that info you said... I don't know ANYTHING about flow numbers or anything....

 

[Jrgunn5150]

You can compare number's right? don't worry about the number's anyway, unless you want to blow 2k-2500 bucks on heads, just get PI heads and be done with it. No one on this board wants to spend 2500 bucks on heads, so.... Pi head's for all, that was pretty much what I said.