Question on Cooling Options

Discussion in 'General Tech' started by mcglsr2, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Hey ReplicaR, RichV, bonestock3.8DTH, MadStang and other [road]racer types, got a question for you fellas regarding cooling. I've got an Auto Meter water temp gauge; normal around-town driving it sits around 220 or so. With A/C on, maybe in stop and go, it could get up to 240. This is in Orlando, summer-ish, so it does get pretty hot outside. My stock cooling fan works properly, both low speed and hi speed come on per stock computer settings, and I have an "override" switch to force the fan on hi. I have a 3 core aluminum rad (though it's a no-name brand, I think it's pretty decent) and I run mostly water. I also use a Mr. Gasket balanced 180 deg thermostat (though I have had trouble with them sticking before).

    My question is what kinds of temps do you guys see? I feel like my temps are too high, or if the temps I'm seeing are normal for my situation then I need to be proactive about lowering them. I'm toying with the idea of relocating the coolant overflow bottle, getting an aluminum shroud on the rad that has spots for two electric fans, and wiring it up such that one comes on for "lo" and both come on for "hi." While, on the surface, this sounds like a good idea, it may be that the stocker is effectively the same and I will be wasting money and time on this. I wanted to get your guys opinion on this, see what you have done for temp management, etc. Thoughts?
     
  2. RichV

    RichV Well-Known Member

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    I don't drive mine in traffic, so hard to compare.

    On track temps, I will see the occasional 240* on a really hot day 30+ minute race, 220* is normal on my gauge. Running a 195* stat. What I've learned is that these cars are bottom feeders. They need the air deflector under the radiator, I run a modified unit from a 88 Ranger truck. Make sure sides of the radiator are boxed in (OE plastics seem to do fine). The fan is really only for when you are not moving, so I guess the question is do you see the temps up when you're moving? Or stuck in traffic. You should not be seeing over 200* on the highway, cruising, IMO with a 180* stat.

    Couple of things that help, higher rated pressure cap. Also using an additive like Water Wetter.
     
  3. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Thanks for the reply, [MENTION=17007]RichV[/MENTION]. I forgot to mention that I do have the bottom air dam in place to feed the radiator. IIRC I see the 220* while driving along on the highway. It moves around a little, maybe gets a little lower, but it usually stays at 220* in most conditions. I'll have to check what my cap is rated at, and looking using Water Wetter - is it okay to run that when on track? The stuff sounds pretty slick, don't know if tracks frown upon it.

    You mention boxing on the sides, are there supposed to be shrouds there? I don't remember seeing any on my car, it's possible they are missing.

    You are also using a ZAP radiator, if I remember correctly? I haven't been on track since my new radiator setup, I'm concerned I'm going to peg 250* and beyond in a session.
     
  4. ReplicaR

    ReplicaR Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, it really depends on what I'm doing. On the hwy I'm usually seeing 180 degrees depending on weather. I saw it get higher before in very high heat, but that's rare. On the track, it's all over the place, I've seen it get as high as 240, at which point I usually start doing cooldown laps. Another thing to consider is that I have a completely different engine than you (fully built vs. mildly modified), so comparison isn't that valid really. I will give you some tips through.

    1. Make sure that the shroud is good. While in motion you want as little restriction as possible. Stock shroud creates a lot of blocking. Try upgrading to Mark 8 fan, and making that work. That's what I've got on my car, but I had to move overflow bottle and computer to make it work.

    2. Possibly time for a vented hood? Go the route I went, and do a GT500 vent in a stock hood. It's cheap and it is effective.
     
  5. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Where did you end up moving the overflow bottle to, and did you keep the stock bottle or switch to an aftermarket bottle? Do you still use the stock cap that has the sensor in it to warn for low coolant?

    I have given this serious consideration. Eventually I want to end up with a fiberglass hood, but in the mean time, this is easy to do...

    Thanks for the reply!
     
  6. Orange 94

    Orange 94 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

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    Would swapping in a tubular bumper support and then cutting holes (sorry, not sure of the technical name) help at all?
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  7. kb1982

    kb1982 Active Member

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    You could give some products like engine ice and water wetter a try. Ive used engine ice before in my 2004 Suzuki GSXR1000, and it seemed to help. The fan didnt kick on until temps reached 215, then it would absolutely just bake you in the summertime when it was on. After engine ice, the temps would take quite a bit longer to kick the fan on in stop and go traffic. Glad the fan on my 09 zx10R turns on at a lower temp.
     
  8. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Part of my To-Do's is to get a chip/tune. I'll request to have the fans kick on at a lower temp. Also, I'll look into the Mark 8 fan. Ultimately I think I need better shrouding, both before and after the radiator. I've seen threads floating around regarding shrouds to direct air up through the hood after the radiator, and I've thought about this since I started considering an extraction hood (sort of like the way the Factory Five Type 65 does it). There's really no room there though between the rad and engine. I'll need to do some more thinking here.

    What thermostat brand do you guys run?
     
  9. CC'S95GT

    CC'S95GT Legend

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    there's been a coupleguys on here who have put a new GT500 heat extractor vent into a sn stock hood. maviski being one of them
     
  10. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Yah, ReplicaR has as well. I've got those threads sub'd in the event that I decided to do the same thing. Looks like I might be dusting those threads off.
     
  11. ReplicaR

    ReplicaR Well-Known Member

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    I switched to the aftermarket bottle and it was mounted on the side of the radiator right where the cap is. I'll take a picture of it later. I don't have the low coolant sensor anymore. I just check it ever now and again. This is not my daily, so it's easier for me to keep track of things like that.
     
  12. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Pics would be appreciated :) I'm considering moving the battery to the rear, and putting an overflow bottle in that spot.
     
  13. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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  14. bonestock3.8DTH

    bonestock3.8DTH Well-Known Member

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    Well, I could never calm my cars cooling issues, it ran hot no matter if it was on the highway, around town, or dodging cones. My factory fan decided to lock up and I replaced it with a little bit larger aftermarket one but it made me lose my fan shroud and I did notice that afterwards around town it did seem to run a little bit warmer but on the highway it ran cooler. But since then I have traded sides to BMW in hopes of I don't even know what :shrug: I miss my Mustang :cryface:.. even though it was a money pit :/
     
  15. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    I've got an idea about cooling this guy. Not that it's applicable to you anymore ( :( ), I'll still post up my findings. Just in case ;)
     
  16. hotmustang95

    hotmustang95 Active Member

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    Boxing in the Rad

    I loooove pictures. That's why I take so many. I need pics to see how things work so I in turn provide many pics of my projects to help people like me out.

    Loooong story short. I fought cooling issues for years. Situation gets worse when your a track addict like myself so I spent about two years of testing different combos for the best results.

    1: Like mentioned above, the fan is just for when the car is stationary. Anything over around 40mph and your radiator has more air passing through it then the fan could ever pull so forcing as much air through the radiator is the key. That's where boxing in your rad comes into play. Sure the car comes with factory stuff but it's not the best being it's very soft and old by now so it's brittle and breaks easily. You can use very thin sheetmetal like I once had. Some cheap metal snips is all that's needed to cut it. I used self tapping screws to secure it.
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    Another material that's great to use is ABS plastic. You can heat the plastic with a torch and bend it to your liking.

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  17. hotmustang95

    hotmustang95 Active Member

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    Aftermarket Overflow Can

    IMO tricks that work good on a racetrack will certainly work well on the street. Cooling for example. If you can figure out a way to keep your car cool during a 30 minute track session, in May, in South FL, then street use isn't even a concern. Now every car is different so one thing that works for one guy may not work for another but everyone knows that getting as much air through the rad as possible is what keeps the car cool. Once you've boxed that rad in and forced all the air into it, it need to easily pass through. I found that removing the shroud allows more air through. When the shroud is in place the incoming air can only pass through or funnel trough the area of the fan. To do this you also have to move the overflow tank out of the way. My car is a 95 so the tank site to the pass side of the car right next to the fan. It's also a big tank. I bought a new universal overflow bottle from Murray's but I believe you can get one from Summit, and placed it in the area of where the intake filter box used to be. I have a CAI now. I also relocated the CCRM to the area where the filter box once was. The CCRM comes from the factory attached to the bracket that holds the stock overflow bottle. Doing this opens up that entire area in the rad allowing easy flow of air through the rad at speeds. I don't have any current pics of how it looks like today but I'll take some tomorrow and add them. Below are pics of the cut up fan and the new bottle.

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  18. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Thanks for the replies, [MENTION=15115]hotmustang95[/MENTION]. I've got some ideas now about how I'm planning on addressing this and reading about your experiences helps, thanks! A couple questions: I am planning on boxing the rad, I've got some aluminum for this. I notice that you completely blocked off the bottom of the rad. The car is originally designed to suck up a lot of air from the bottom - why did you choose to box off that area as well rather than just the top and sides?

    I will be moving my overflow bottle, probably to where the battery currently is. The shroud vs. no shroud is interesting - I was originally planning on running a shroud but now need to do more research. I will be using a dual fan setup, originally with a dual fan aluminum shroud. Maybe now without a shroud. One fan will get hooked up to the "LO" speed off the CCRM, the second fan will get hooked up to the "HI" speed - I need to make sure that the low is still getting voltage when the hi is on, I'm just tossing around ideas right now and haven't looked at the wiring diagram yet.
     
  19. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Alright, did some reading, some research, and some thinking. I will be using a fan shroud. I understand that it might somewhat limit the air coming through at highway speeds, but on a track the car will not always be seeing highway speeds. It spends a lot of time in corners (depending on the track of course). A fan with fan shroud will help tremendously at lower speeds while not really hurting that much at higher speeds. The car won't be at higher speeds enough to fully cool things while it is transition through and accelerating out of corners. A fan is better than no fan at all, but a fan with a shroud is better than a fan with no shroud. This is all based on a puller setup. A pusher set up is different - a fan shroud should NOT be used on a pusher setup. With a puller, it should, and I shall.
     
  20. CC'S95GT

    CC'S95GT Legend

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    Both won't be able to be on at the same time if your using the CCRM. The relays inside are not set up that way. It's either one or the other..
    For race applications I would recomend having an independant sensor and 2 relays for the fans. either set them up to come on at different temps or both come on at the same temp