The Great Boost Discussion Thread - GOOD INFO INSIDE!!!

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

meth injection is great

not too costly if you consider the benefits (below ambient iat possible, and the additional octane)

no draw backs other then you have to fill the tank. don't let people try to steer you away saying if the pump fails or you run out you will blow your motor etc. they obvisiously don't know how to tune a car with meth. its simple, if the meth fails iat go up... base your ve tables to add fuel and pull timing as iat goes up

there are also electronics that are available that can trigger different tunes, pull timing etc. i have one of those as well so if something happens it actually just changes my tune and the base tune has the iat based tables so either way if something happens the car will just make a little less power

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

meth injection is great

not too costly if you consider the benefits (below ambient iat possible, and the additional octane)

no draw backs other then you have to fill the tank. don't let people try to steer you away saying if the pump fails or you run out you will blow your motor etc. they obvisiously don't know how to tune a car with meth. its simple, if the meth fails iat go up... base your ve tables to add fuel and pull timing as iat goes up

there are also electronics that are available that can trigger different tunes, pull timing etc. i have one of those as well so if something happens it actually just changes my tune and the base tune has the iat based tables so either way if something happens the car will just make a little less power

wow, do you have a write up on your set up? or a link?

did you just use your washer fluid res.? i want a seperate resevour so my wiper-juice still works. lol.


and my wiper-juice pump hasnt gone out in 14 years, i doubt a meth pump will... ya know?

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

meth injection is great

not too costly if you consider the benefits (below ambient iat possible, and the additional octane)

no draw backs other then you have to fill the tank. don't let people try to steer you away saying if the pump fails or you run out you will blow your motor etc. they obvisiously don't know how to tune a car with meth. its simple, if the meth fails iat go up... base your ve tables to add fuel and pull timing as iat goes up

there are also electronics that are available that can trigger different tunes, pull timing etc. i have one of those as well so if something happens it actually just changes my tune and the base tune has the iat based tables so either way if something happens the car will just make a little less power

wow, do you have a write up on your set up? or a link?

did you just use your washer fluid res.? i want a seperate resevour so my wiper-juice still works. lol.


and my wiper-juice pump hasnt gone out in 14 years, i doubt a meth pump will... ya know?

i use snow performance's stage 2 kit and i also have their "safe injection". i use my stock windshield washer tank. you can do the same and still wash the windshield with it if you wish, its all the same stuff just different ratios

i buy meth directly from a chemical place and make my own but i am going to be just using windshield washer fluid in the future as its cheaper and easier to get

as far as my tune goes. i tuned the car with no meth as a baseline. got it to where i was happy with it on just pump gas and very conservative. data logged a lot especially inlet temps.

i then used my computers built in nitrous tables and set them to be always active unless one of my 12v reference signal inputs (i forget which one i used) detects a signal. that is where the safe injection comes into play. with the nitrous tables on the computer adds a lot more timing and pulls some fuel.

say the pump dies. the safe injection sends the signal, then the computer automatically turns the nitrous tables off and the computer is on safe conservative tune.

i also have a backup if the safe injection were to fail. since i knew what the inlet temps were with and without meth i also have the computer pull timing and add fuel if the temps start to rise.

i don't have all the numbers in front of me. they are all written down in the garage and in the computer. but that should give you a idea.

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

links

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=8


http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=13


http://www.aemelectronics.com/engine-management-9/plug-play-engine-management-systems-ems-10/

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

so i would let my tuner do it... since, obviously, its above my head.

id just ahve to get the $600.00 worth of equipment, then plug it into the intake tract before the blower, correct?

is it put into the intake system in the same location on all set ups?

forexample, on a top mount it would go after the MAF and before the blower. would it go in the same location on a turbo? or maybe directly into the throttle body?

 

[OnyxCobra]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

Modo which meth kit do you have? I just purchased the stage 2 MAF kit to go with my KB, Snow said that would be the most ideal kit for the roots style blower.

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

so i would let my tuner do it... since, obviously, its above my head.

id just ahve to get the $600.00 worth of equipment, then plug it into the intake tract before the blower, correct?

is it put into the intake system in the same location on all set ups?

forexample, on a top mount it would go after the MAF and before the blower. would it go in the same location on a turbo? or maybe directly into the throttle body?

you can spray pre compressor but the jet size would vary...

rodney the owner of ais has a real nice write about pre compressor injection and also has really nice kits.

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/

might be a option for you since you wanted a seperate tank. if you don't mind mouting it in your trunk his setup is sweet

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

Modo which meth kit do you have? I just purchased the stage 2 MAF kit to go with my KB, Snow said that would be the most ideal kit for the roots style blower.

i have the snow stg 2 but i do not have a mass air meter. my car is speed density

 

[OnyxCobra]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

Makes sense lol. You're happy with the performance gains though? I'm pretty excited to see what it can do for my setup.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

so i would let my tuner do it... since, obviously, its above my head.

id just ahve to get the $600.00 worth of equipment, then plug it into the intake tract before the blower, correct?

is it put into the intake system in the same location on all set ups?

forexample, on a top mount it would go after the MAF and before the blower. would it go in the same location on a turbo? or maybe directly into the throttle body?

you can spray pre compressor but the jet size would vary...

rodney the owner of ais has a real nice write about pre compressor injection and also has really nice kits.

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/

might be a option for you since you wanted a seperate tank. if you don't mind mouting it in your trunk his setup is sweet

thanks for the link man. ill look into this stuff.

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

It's like any other octane-increaser. You're adding a fuel other than gasoline to your engine in an effort to increase octane to be able to run more boost, timing, etc. As long as it's used properly, I have no issue with it. Personal preference, I don't like the weight gain when race fuel is an option. Extra wiring, extra liquid to be carrying around. If you want some ballast, get a nitrous bottle. Same effects as methanol with a bigger horsepower gain.

Again, for you, all you need is a stock, simple Terminator swap. Don't overcomplicate the recipe.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

over complication makes things interesting...

what would the effects be with N2o and Meth? not planning on doing it, just curious.

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

It's like any other octane-increaser. You're adding a fuel other than gasoline to your engine in an effort to increase octane to be able to run more boost, timing, etc. As long as it's used properly, I have no issue with it. Personal preference, I don't like the weight gain when race fuel is an option. Extra wiring, extra liquid to be carrying around. If you want some ballast, get a nitrous bottle. Same effects as methanol with a bigger horsepower gain.

Again, for you, all you need is a stock, simple Terminator swap. Don't overcomplicate the recipe.

difference is running race gas just raises octane, using meth injection it also drastically cools the discharge temps.

if you need nitrous on top of a s/c or turbo you didn't build it right the first time.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

It's like any other octane-increaser. You're adding a fuel other than gasoline to your engine in an effort to increase octane to be able to run more boost, timing, etc. As long as it's used properly, I have no issue with it. Personal preference, I don't like the weight gain when race fuel is an option. Extra wiring, extra liquid to be carrying around. If you want some ballast, get a nitrous bottle. Same effects as methanol with a bigger horsepower gain.

Again, for you, all you need is a stock, simple Terminator swap. Don't overcomplicate the recipe.

difference is running race gas just raises octane, using meth injection it also drastically cools the discharge temps.

if you need nitrous on top of a s/c or turbo you didn't build it right the first time.

based off GTP's posting that meth performs the same functions as n2o (ruffly speaking,) cant the same thing be said about meth?

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

It's like any other octane-increaser. You're adding a fuel other than gasoline to your engine in an effort to increase octane to be able to run more boost, timing, etc. As long as it's used properly, I have no issue with it. Personal preference, I don't like the weight gain when race fuel is an option. Extra wiring, extra liquid to be carrying around. If you want some ballast, get a nitrous bottle. Same effects as methanol with a bigger horsepower gain.

Again, for you, all you need is a stock, simple Terminator swap. Don't overcomplicate the recipe.

difference is running race gas just raises octane, using meth injection it also drastically cools the discharge temps.

if you need nitrous on top of a s/c or turbo you didn't build it right the first time.

based off GTP's posting that meth performs the same functions as n2o (ruffly speaking,) cant the same thing be said about meth?

its not even close to the same thing. the benefits added from meth is two fold, it raises the octane point and cools the discharge. nitrous does have a cooling effect but i highly doubt you can get below ambient temps with it like you can with meth / water. also nitrous is NOT a fuel, it will not raise the octane level.

i don't get the whole additional weight point. i added maybe 5 lbs for the pump since I am using the winshield washer tank which holds a tad over a gallon and it would be full anyways. a gallon of water is what ~8 lbs? the additional 100rwhp which is safer then pump gas alone with a additional 15ish lbs is well worth it imo.

you can't say the same about a f/i + nitrous setup. if you ask me that is just asking for a hard part failure.

lets look at it from a cost perspective.

take the cost of the kits out of the equation even though a meth kit is cheaper.

1 gallon of 70/30 windshield washer fluid is approx $2 and will last roughly 10-15 1320 passes depending on jet sizes
1 10lb nitrous bottle is roughly 50-60 bucks to fill and will last maybe 2-3 full passes on a 50-100 shot.

this isn't even considering there are specific differences in ring gaps / types of rings and bearing clearances between building a f/i motor vs a nitrous motor

in a nut shell

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

what are your views on meth injection?

worth it? worthless? not needed on a street car?
too costly for the benifits on a street car?

what are it's benifits and draw-backs?

It's like any other octane-increaser. You're adding a fuel other than gasoline to your engine in an effort to increase octane to be able to run more boost, timing, etc. As long as it's used properly, I have no issue with it. Personal preference, I don't like the weight gain when race fuel is an option. Extra wiring, extra liquid to be carrying around. If you want some ballast, get a nitrous bottle. Same effects as methanol with a bigger horsepower gain.

Again, for you, all you need is a stock, simple Terminator swap. Don't overcomplicate the recipe.

difference is running race gas just raises octane, using meth injection it also drastically cools the discharge temps.

if you need nitrous on top of a s/c or turbo you didn't build it right the first time.

based off GTP's posting that meth performs the same functions as n2o (ruffly speaking,) cant the same thing be said about meth?

it could. and I'd agree. if you're going far enough to need nitrous or meth on top of your primary power adder you're overcomplicating the recipe that you didn't make right in the first place.

you can't get below ambient temps with nitrous? really? open a bottle valve right in your own face. you'll literally freeze yourself to death.

don't try and argue price point on modified multi-power adder vehicles. that went out the window a long time ago. I don't know where you're getting these numbers from - my 150 wet shot lasts me 4-5 passes before I start seeing fall-off from a 10lb bottle. my point about the weight was versus race fuel, not nitrous. it was also a simplicity point. adding race fuel adds no additional weight or complication to the car.

but like I said, it's all personal preference.



my advice is still keep it simple. one power adder on a street car off the shelf somewhere near decently sized. add a front mount intercooler if you think it looks cool, and get a good tune. we could have a giant "wish" thread and build a stroker ford-gt aluminum block, ported 2011 head, stupid cam/valvetrain, sheetmetal lower, dry sump, 3.4L whipple, twin turbocharged, FMIC, meth, race gas, 400 shot direct port, ginormo fuel system monster to get the best of all worlds tuned on the ragged edge race motor and waste $60K. Because we'd have an overcomplicated, noisy, rackety, heavy, insanely plumbed, impossible to work on, impossible to tune, only runs on wednesdays piece of shit.

 

[modo]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

how is using meth over complicating anything. it is NOT a power adder.

you can add a front mount intercooler but that won't even get the temps at ambient and it does nothing to raise octane.

money is a factor...

i use to run c-16 in my car which the last time i bought it was 11.25 a gallon. even with the race gas on a summer day my iat datalogs were around 170-200. hotter temps = less power

take your nitrous example into play, 60 bucks to fill the tank. once cruise on the weekend that tank is empty and i have to add more fuel since the nitrous will change my ve tables

thats 195 bucks to take the car out for a couple hours


now lets use 50/50 water & meth

can use pump gas 2-3 bucks here, costs me 1.50ish a gallon for the meth mixture

the car makes more power with the same tune simply because the iat are lower and the air charge is more dense


its not more complicated, its wiser and safer

 

[IceMan]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

You are right modo... Cheaper and safer...

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

hey now. lets not get too hostile... civil debate will gain more ground/credibility than aggressive (sp?) arguments. lol.



It seems the topic of IATs is coming into play with questioning:
will N2O or Meth cool the air charge more effectively?

Also, i think the basics of how N2O vs. Meth works.
Is the Meth actually "combustable"? is it like an afterburner on a jet? Is that how the power is gained? or is it simply a non-combustable that cools the aircharge to add power?

Is N2O a "combustable?" or is it an extra substance to change the chemical-structure of the fuel?? ya know? how does all this stuff work?

are we comparing apples and oranges here?