Timing issues

Project Grey94

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I have to have the timing cranked way up for the car to even start kind of hard on the starter turns on when I look at the timing light it's a 22 degrees I can turn it down to 10 degrees top dead center but the car has no power and when you hit the gas pedal the engine shakes and will shut off and when I have the timing spout plugged in it will not start or stay running at all when I pulled the distributor and try to move it a tooth it wouldn't start at all and then sounded like I was out of timing first time posting anything and I just signed up on here any ideas guys or ladies
 

07GtS197

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How old is the balancer? It could have slipped and shows the wrong timing. Verify top dead center through a spark plug hole and compare that to what the balancer says.
 
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Project Grey94

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Thank you sir I have done that this morning and it showing that I am a tooth off number one on top of the distributor so I remove the distributor and moved it a tooth to where it was pointing at number 1 and then the car does not want to start and it sounds like the engine is straining like completely out of time when I brought the engine on top dead center compression stroke put a baby screwdriver in there turning the harmonic balancer until 0 and it seems to be dead on so then I pulled the distributor again moved it back one tooth to where it would run but again I have to turn the timing way up to get it to start when I put the timing light on it I can get it all the way back down to 10 with no pinging or popping but when I hit the gas pedal the engine will hesitate to shake and stall and yes when I am doing the timing I have the spout out I also have a Haynes manual that I just bought and I keep researching that and this is my first s n the other seven I owned we're foxes that where carburetor and sorry again just to let you all know that when I put the timing light on it it is up around 20 22 degrees and yes it is pinging and popping but when it's not turned up that far the car won't run it won't start and if it does start it definitely won't move but one it is cranked up the 20 22 I can actually drive it with no bucking which leads me to believe that I'm a tooth out of timing could anybody tell me the correct way or the way that works the best on getting these cars back timing or am I on the right track just keep trying to move it a tooth one way or another thanks again guys this is all a big help
 

07GtS197

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It’s possible that timing isn’t the issue but makes whatever the issue is worse. I would set it back to 10 and check the maf while off and running. Check the tps too.
 
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Project Grey94

Project Grey94

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Thank you sir I will get some MAF cleaner clean that sensor get the car running put it back at 10 degrees and I will let you know if the MAF was the issue and just to clarify as I said before the car will run and idle smooth at 10 degrees but no power engine shakes hesitate or we'll just cut off if I hit the gas pedal but again thank you very much for your time I'm going to try this out let everybody know what happens later on in the day
 
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Project Grey94

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It’s possible that timing isn’t the issue but makes whatever the issue is worse. I would set it back to 10 and check the maf while off and running. Check the tps too.
Could you give me a rundown of things to check I'm almost positive that it's timing but we're all human and I've been wrong a lot and thanks again for all the info 07gts197
 

07GtS197

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Check the basics first. A lot of sensors can affect driveability. If you have a multimeter, check to see what the battery and alternator are doing too. I had a bad alternator once and it would run fine at idle but as soon as I’d give it some gas it would hesitate and stall.
 
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Project Grey94

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I've been poking around and looking and found that one of my O2 sensors are broke off so I think I'm going to start with this problem because I'm going to assume that this could very well be the problem you probably another reason my eyes been burning working on this thing
 

07GtS197

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I doubt that’s the only issue. With no signal it will run in open loop, so very rich which explains the eye burning lol. But it’ll run fine.
 
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Project Grey94

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Could the O2 sensor being broke off explain when the timing is set at 10 degrees the car runs great at idle no pinging and popping no sounding like it has a cam because it doesn't but when when I hit the gas pedal the engine will either Shake sputter or shut off I just replaced fuel filter and pump
 

Addermk2

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it showing that I am a tooth off number one on top of the distributor

There is literally no such thing as being " a tooth off". I dont know where this nonsense got started, but it seems like you really havent got a clue what you are doing.

The balancer needs to have its "zero" verified. This is done by using a piston stop. Once you know that the balancer is good and the ring hasnt spun, THEN you can set your timing WITH A LIGHT.

If you havent verified zero, stop doing any other troubleshooting, because you're screwing up.
 
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Project Grey94

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Well apparently you haven't read all the post but thanks for all the positivity and if you have read through the post you seen I've been sincere saying thank you sir for all the knowledge I wasn't on here being ignorant I have definitely put the car at top dead center the harmonic balancer is brand new and it's turning out that my fuel pump went bad but once again thank you for all your knowledge I appreciate everything
 
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Project Grey94

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I guess that's another reason it's called project grey 94 I bought this car it was abused nothing on it make sense and I'm trying to get information are you telling me I apparently don't know a damn thing on what I'm doing would clearly show you that you didn't read the post
 

tvsn95

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It’s possible that timing isn’t the issue but makes whatever the issue is worse. I would set it back to 10 and check the maf while off and running. Check the tps too.
for what its worth the TPS has NO connection to the described problem. TPS serves to let the ECU know that the throttle is at idle and give accelerator shot info to the ECU.
slight drivability problem ARE often TPS. But this sensor is most likely the least influential to the tune.
things that will give you fits are , shorted/failed ECT sensor ( not the gauge) and on our OLD ECU's failed Caps'
Also to slight the crappy charging system that our cars have ., It is hard to describe what low voltage does to the ENTIRE tune..( it's because the ECU has a Battery offset table to compensate,, when you make hardware changes things get strange fast) I keep pointing this out but it appears nobody listens. OOOHHHWELLL
 

07GtS197

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for what its worth the TPS has NO connection to the described problem. TPS serves to let the ECU know that the throttle is at idle and give accelerator shot info to the ECU.
slight drivability problem ARE often TPS. But this sensor is most likely the least influential to the tune.
things that will give you fits are , shorted/failed ECT sensor ( not the gauge) and on our OLD ECU's failed Caps'
Also to slight the crappy charging system that our cars have ., It is hard to describe what low voltage does to the ENTIRE tune..( it's because the ECU has a Battery offset table to compensate,, when you make hardware changes things get strange fast) I keep pointing this out but it appears nobody listens. OOOHHHWELLL
And you felt it necessary to quote an old post of mine why?
 

tvsn95

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And you felt it necessary to quote an old post of mine why?
Wow you are right. I wonder why this thread came up as new in the email s I get ???
Heck I thought I was helping you guys to understand some basics. I apologize to ya for taking us all back in time LOL.
 

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