Timing Nightmare! Help!!!

Discussion in '94-95 5.0 - Specific' started by Rigs50, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    Several months ago I warped a head on my 94 5.0 and had to tear her down to fix. Went ahead and rebuilt the entire engine from the ground up. Now, I've set timing before, I'm well aware to bring up number one, stab the distributor where the pointer points to number one. Did all that. What I didn't know was to pull the "spout connector". Every time I'd get the car started, it would hit like 1500 rpm for a few seconds, surge a little then die. My timing marks were nowhere to be seen. I pulled the spout and the car started up, dead on 0*. But I opened the throttle and it died.
    My problem is that I can get the car to start but it will NOT idle. It either fluctuates rpm or just won't stay running. It gets even worse if I try to put the spout connector back in. Everything ran fine before my rebuild, so I'm not sure what's going on. I've been pointed towards MAF, TFI and PIP, all of which I'm going to try and check momentarily.

    Any by experience or help with this issue would be greatly appreciated. I've never in my life had so much frustration with timing.
     
  2. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    I also just noticed that when I am at TDC my balancer is at 12* Btdc. I'm assuming that is from setting my new timing chain on the "advanced" key way?
     
  3. RSB95

    RSB95 New Member

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    Are you sure your on the compression stroke?you could be 180 out
     
  4. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    Ya I'm pretty sure. I'm kinda doing this solo so it's a bit of work. I had marked the dist housing before hand too and at TDC it lines up with my previous mark. I just got in the car this morning, started right up, idled fine, dead on zero. Let it run 5 minutes, tried to open the throttle and it revved them died. Can't get it to start now without opening the throttle, and even when I get it running it surges then dies. Extremely frustrating.
     
  5. RichV

    RichV Well-Known Member

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    Pull the spout and set the timing with a light. That way there is no guessing.
     
  6. Addermk2

    Addermk2 Well-Known Member

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    If you are 100% sure that the piston is indeed at TDC (like if you verified with a piston stop) yet your balancer reads 12*... You need a new balancer.

    You need to start from step 1 and verify your components. Otherwise you are wasting alot of our, and your own, time.



    Sent from my CyanMobileX Evo 4G
     
  7. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    Thanks guys. I'm 99% sure it's the stupid balancer because now I'm at TDC on compression and my balancer is way ABOVE TDC!!! Just great
     
  8. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    Ok I replaced the PIP in the distributor, brought up #1 on compression. Stabbed the distributor pointing to #1. Car fired right up, got my timing light and put it to 12* Btdc. Tried to open throttle just a hair and it was a slow response and then died. Tried to start it again and had to use throttle to start it and the idle was surging some
     
  9. CC'S95GT

    CC'S95GT Legend

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    Ck for vacuum leaks.
    Pull codes.
     
  10. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    I'm not showing any codes. No CEL, no airbag blinking. I got it to where it will start and idle now. I put some marks on both "Halves" of the balancer to see if it was slipping and so far the two marks are still aligned. Car idles good but smells really rich and when I point my light, with spout connector out, my timing marks aren't always on the pointer. Every once in a while it comes by at about 14* Btdc. With spout connector in, it varies. Sometimes it idles fine and at others the marks still don't align. Went for a drive around the block and at low throttle it drives fine, anything over half throttle it starts to backfire
     
  11. MustangChris

    MustangChris Legend Retired Staff SN95 Supporter

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    did you ever replace this?
     
  12. toyman

    toyman Active Member

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    The SPOUT is only a jumper. With it removed the ECU can't alter the timing. So, with the SPOUT removed and the balancer is good and the timing light is good it will flash at a steady and consistent rate and will point on the same mark. You want to see a steady 10*. Are you looking at the correct spot on the timing bracket? You want to read at the straight edge and NOT the point on the circle. In this image it's where you see the reflection NOT where the point is showing 270*.[​IMG]
     
  13. CC'S95GT

    CC'S95GT Legend

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    It sounds like your timing is waaaay off.
    Your wasting your time trying to set timing with a slipped HB.
    Signs of a slipped harmonic balancer- Wobbling HB at idle, rubber squeezing out from between the inner and outer pieces (usually on the side next to the oil pan), vibrations when the engine is running, timing marks off at TDC.
     
  14. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    I have not replaced it yet, but will likely do so today. But if I'm setting the distributor correctly, what does it matter where the balancer is as far as the car physically running. I know it's a referenCe for dialing it in perfect but didn't think it could cause l these problems. I noticed the rubber on the front sticks out a little bit but not much like it's about to fall apart. I just don't get how it will start right up perfectly, and idle right at about 900 right now but back fire at wot. Guess I'll see what kind of balancer I can get hold of today
     
  15. CC'S95GT

    CC'S95GT Legend

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    Your right, if #1 is on TDC and the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire it should start and run. but not very well.
    Make sure your using the HO firing order and now the non HO firing order. That could explain the backfiring too.You

    You could mannually set the timing the old school way, by ear. Just to get the idle to smooth out.
     
  16. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    That's kinda what we've been doing, just playing it by ear. And the firing order I'm using is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, is that the one you're referring to? I'm going to start from scratch on the timing one more time before I pull the balancer. Are there any other sensors you guys can think of that may have gone bad while sitting? Silicon on tfi is still perfect, new PIP in distributor, cleaned MAF, I can't think of any other major sensors that would cause issues. Except maybe o2's but I can't see them just going bad
     
  17. CC'S95GT

    CC'S95GT Legend

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    that is the right firing order.

    I just went back and reread the OP. Why did you set the cam on the "advanced" setting and not "straight up"?
     
  18. Rigs50

    Rigs50 New Member

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    I was told by the machinist that the advanced setting would give me a little more low rpm torque. I'm running aluminum gt40 heads and a b cam. Everything else is pretty much stock as far as I know. The head has also been milled .01"
     
  19. RichV

    RichV Well-Known Member

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    Screw the 'by ear' BS. You need a timing light.

    Remove #1 plug.
    Use something in the plug hole to feel piston top.
    Turn crank until you feel piston at TDC, should be 0* on pointer/crank.
    Mark the #1 on the distributor halo ring under cap, turn distributor until rotor points to mark.
    Remove spout, cap/wires/plug back on, start car.
    Use timing light to get 10* BTDC on scale.
    Put spout back in.

    Funny story, I used a newer timing light that you would set with a dial. I had the dial set to 10*, didn't know you were supposed to set the light to zero. I set the light to 10* and had my timing at 0* for almost 2 seasons before I figured it out. Didn't run bad, just a little hotter. And I guess my headers would glow red on the dyno.
     
  20. Handz

    Handz Member

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    We can fix this right now.

    1. Throw away the 5.0
    2. Install a 4.6.
    3. Do Burnout