1998 GT Starting/stalling and jolting while driving problems.

ANaughtyTugboat · Feb 24, 2013

Hey guys, I just signed up here. I'm posting this on different forums to see if anyone has had any similar experience to mine, but so far no one seems to know what's going on. This will be kinda long, but there's a TL;DR at the end with videos of what's happening.

I'm relatively sure my fuel pump has been on the way out for awhile, but I'm not sure. It takes forever to start if I don't cycle the key on/off 3 times to prime, which I found out is a sign of a bad pump.

Last night I had gotten gas before I took my friend back to this house. I made it to his house fine, no problems whatsoever. I shut the car off, came back out 5 minutes later, and the car died as soon as it fired. I figured "that was weird, maybe i let go too early" and tried to start it again. It fired right back up, but then all of the sudden the car began to rev itself upwards of 1500 to 2000 rpms and then would fall right back to idle. It was as if a ghost was sitting there showing off my exhaust. It did it again, and then stalled.

I tried to restart the car, and it wouldn't crank. The theft light was flashing, which was weird because this is the first time I had ever seen that happen. The flash code incase anyone is wondering is 1-pause-6. It randomly disappeared a minute later and let me start the car up again, only for the same revving problems to start right back up. I noticed when the car revved itself, it would sputter back down to idle, the check engine light would flash for every misfire felt, and then the car would stall. You could here a clicking under the hood while I left the key on that would be in unison with the check engine light flashing, even though the engine wasn't running. The weirdest part about this is my check engine light had been flashed off long ago because of my off road exhaust(or so i am led to believe by reading up on various exhaust/CEL threads.), so this is literally the first time I have ever seen my check engine light on.

I managed to make it home, the car even itself out and gave me no trouble getting back home for the 8 or so highway miles it was between our houses. I tried going out today, car fired right up and seemed to be running fine, yet once i got to the mall it gave out on me. I got it restarted long enough to get into a parking lot, all the while it is revving and jolting itself all over the place and i couldn't control it. As soon as i put it in neutral it would stall. This time when the theft light randomly came on it let the car crank, but not fire. I couldn't figure out what was wrong, and since this only started happening after I got gas I figured i'd gotten some awful gas from Exxon. I disconnected the battery, got a ride home, got a few gas cans from a different station, and came back and filled it up. The car started up fine and gave me no trouble getting home, but now i'm scared to move it.

In conclusion, does anyone have ANY clue what just happened here? The car was running perfectly since I changed the plugs and wires about 3 weeks ago. Sorry for the long story, I just need some help here. If it IS the fuel pump, what is the best drop in solution i could tell a shop to do for the fuel pump, seeing as the 98 is such a strange year. I cannot do it myself sadly, so I'll be needing a shop for this one.

Today I also cleaned the IAC, Thorttle Body, and MAF, unplugged the battery, and let it relearn the idle. Same problems happen. The car seems to need to be at operating temperature for any of this to happen.

Thank you for the help in advance!

Tl;dr version : Car ran fine, got gas, stalled repeatedly, theft light came on out of nowhere along with check engine light, and fuel pump may be bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_jPFWYZiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2J8eZ2AHM

FaykSaleen · Feb 24, 2013

Have you checked for vacuum leaks? For it to be revving up either air is coming in after the throttle body or it's tps related if I had to take a guess.

ANaughtyTugboat · Feb 24, 2013

I do think my TPS is going bad, as it had been hanging RPMs while shifting for awhile, though that randomly stopped. Would a TPS cause it to stall in that fashion though? That's what's confusing me. I'll probably check around for vacuum leaks tomorrow.

RabidPony · Feb 25, 2013

I'm with Fayk with a slight modification. This does sound like a TPS related issue but could also be related to the IAC. Similar issues to this occurred when my IAC went bad. Two things, have you had the codes read and when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter. Also, double check the vacuum line to the FPR, just on the what if.

ANaughtyTugboat · Feb 25, 2013

Well when my car was misfiring back in the summer I had tried to use a scanner my uncles mechanic has to read a code, but the check engine light never actually came on and the scanner didn't even read anything from the car which leads me to believe that the car's computer had that stuff flashed off. I'm not sure of this though but that's the conclusion i came to after reading a bunch of forum posts on why my car came up as not ready at inspection even though i had driven around. i'll check the tps but i couldn't see that causing the stalling issue or the PATS problem.

FaykSaleen · Feb 26, 2013

A vacuum leak can cause a misfire. Do a vacuum leak smoke test, I have a feeling your intake manifold is cracked somewhere.

Also, Ford's drive cycle is a pain in the ass to complete. Might take a full tank and 100+ miles of driving, ask me how I know lol

ANaughtyTugboat · Mar 1, 2013

The intake manifold shouldn't be a problem. I had replaced it back in 2010 because of a crack in it letting antifreesze gush out like a geyser. That was a fun sight. Anyway I just got back from my mechanic who finally got around to looking at it. Apparently when they read the CEL it pointed to something being wrong with the security system. My car still has the standard PATS system, so that's what getting checked out next week. Does this sound like a PATS problem to anyone? It only does it after idling/driving long enough to reach operating temperature, so I figured if it was a PATS problem it would happen at any time, not just then.

FaykSaleen · Mar 2, 2013

Normally the pats system will either fully allow you to drive your car or completely disable it. For it to be acting funny like that is a bit odd to me but I guess I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility because your theft light is flashing.

Hmm..

ANaughtyTugboat · Mar 2, 2013

Really? I had figured that, but I wasn't sure, especially not now since it comes back as a theft system fault apparently. Well I'm in a predicament now aren't I? Also while looking over the car today I noticed the driver side coil pack, cylinder 4 specifically, was constantly arching. I removed a wire at a time to try and find the slight misfire i was hearing(and feeling on deceleration because the engine braking seems to increase with a misfire which I'm not sure is normal.)

When I pulled the wire off and held it away i noticed a nice little light show coming out of the coil itself. I'm assuming that needs to be replaced. I cleaned it up as much as I could but it still archs pretty consistently. That coil pack is the one I replaced a little over a year ago with an Autozone one, looks like it didn't work out too well. Does anyone know where I could get an OEM Motorcraft replacement? I can't figure out which one I need from looking online, and all online stores that list something for Motorcraft have 98s mislabeled as using the COP system.

MustangChris · Mar 9, 2013

any word on this?

get it all figured out?

vermilion · Mar 9, 2013

Eat, Shit and breathe this.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/index_ford_4.6L_5.4L/index_of_articles_1.php

MustangChris · Mar 9, 2013

wow! cool site!!

vermilion · Mar 9, 2013

i stumbled upon it a few years ago. i have used it many many times. when i used it, i added some of my own deviations. but it pretty much covers everything with accuracy

ANaughtyTugboat · Mar 10, 2013

I will be checking out that website later tonight. Unfortunately I haven't gotten this sorted out yet. I've had it at my mechanic during the week for the last 2 weeks, taking it home on the weekend because I'm insane and don't wanna leave it on a lot on a main road unattended for a weekend lol. Anyway after them looking at it for awhile, and me googling every possible thing I've found out about the CCRM in the fender, which is what is clicking in the videos after the car stalls. I actually have other videos no on my youtube that I took last night.

What happened was the place I go to called in their electrical expert to check out the car, and the car decides to basically be a troll and run perfectly fine. They had it running for an hour and a half and it wouldn't do anything. Since the guy couldn't see what happens he had them reinforce all the grounds for the engine. I just happened to be passing by and noticed my car was running so I went to talk to them and they told me what's up. They said to take it for a spin, and what do you know, the second i open the door it starts revving and stalls itself. Funny how that works huh?

The guy is coming back tomorrow to check it out and I have some videos for him to see incase it wants to be normal again. It seems like once it warms up, something happens somewhere and it just cuts fuel to the engine, followed by clicking in the CCRM box. If you leave it on after it stalls and clicks for a little while it will kick the fan on at random. This car is confusing.

This video here I'm not touching anything. My legs are no where near the gas pedal and there's no one outside playing with the throttle. It didn't stall at the end, I just shut it off because it was 1030 at night and my exhaust isn't exactly quiet. Normally it doesn't rev for that long, it'll do that for a second or 2 and then just die like I turned off the ignition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbVwn6LeKxU

This video is the clicking coming from the fender where the CCRM is, along with the fan randomly kicking on after it had stalled itself. If you listen inbetween the clicking there is a strange highpitched sound that plays, but I don't know what it is. You can also hear the fuel pump prime itself every once in awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsrFZGbqEws

riot9maker · Mar 10, 2013

Usually when I find something like this at work, it comes back to some corroded wires. Could have something to do with the insane amount of corrosion in Michigan due to road salt. Check power and grounds to the fuses, especially the maxi fuses. You should have 12V on either side. If you find anything less than battery voltage at a critical connection like that it, it could very well be your problem. Low voltage will make cars do very wierd things.. (escpecailly Chryslers lol) but anyway.. thats where I would be looking if the shop can't figure it out.

ANaughtyTugboat · Mar 10, 2013

I'm pretty sure it has to be electrical, but what I don't understand is why it would only happen when the car is warming/warmed up. I'll check to see if I see any corroded wires anywhere, but the shop I was at didn't see anything bad like that. I know my cylinder 4 ignition coil is arcing (damn cheap autozone replacement didn't even last a year) so i have a new Motorcraft coil pack coming in tomorrow that i'll put on, but i'm sure that's not causing this crazy situation but you never know. I do know that's causing a miss sometimes. But the shop I got to seems to think that if they can't find an electrical problem, it's a bad computer. I'm not sure but that does make some sense. Does that sound right to anyone?

riot9maker · Mar 11, 2013

It could be a pcm issue, but its not likely. If you know somebody with the same car as you, you could swap pcm's and see if it still does it. But first, I would make sure they check all powers and grounds going to the pcm. Also, RabidPony may be on to something with the IAC. It sounds like its "hunting for idle" in the video

ANaughtyTugboat · Mar 11, 2013

I may have either IAC or TPS issues but I'm not sure. Every once in awhile I'll have a streak where the car will hang the RPMs while shifting for longer than normal and come down slowly. That happened most recently back in september until October then just stopped happening. Also once inawhile the idle rpms would fluctuate from whatever the idle is on this car, i'm guessing 7-800 rpms, to around 1100 or 1200 and drop right back down. That also comes and goes. That happened most recently at the end of this past summer.

I did a quick test with the MAF and IAC with unplugging one each while it was running to see if it changed. Someone had told me the car should either run like shit or stall if I unplug the MAF while it idles, and if i unplugged the IAC it should stall. The car ran rough when I unplugged the MAF, so I plugged it back in and restarted it, and unplugged the IAC. The car stalled within 3-5 seconds. So i'm assuming they're in working condition.

vermilion · Mar 12, 2013

if you unplug maf the car should run at idle 13.9 AFR. the car will run closed loop with the o2 sensors. unplugging the IAC should stall the car immediately unless you hold the throttle down. you'll need a multimeter and do the electrical test. its not hard. if i can do it. you can do it.

ANaughtyTugboat · Mar 12, 2013

Got the car back again today. They checked over the wires and wireharness and everything checked out good. They tried changing the crank sensor since that's all they could think of then. Drove the car home, and I put in the new coil pack. I decided to drive to my uncles house which is about 5 blocks away. I dropped something off, got back in my car and it saw the check engine light flashing as I was going down the hill and the second i took it out of the gear it had totally stalled. When the lights flashing the throttle is totally unresponsive like the car isn't running, so it's probably just the trans keeping the engine turning at that point. So any ideas where to head from here?