5.4 ?????

[voidfinger]

couldn't the same be used for the 2v swaps? just more room!

 

[r3dn3ck]

you could but you don't need to and it complicates the install quite a bit. 4v 5.4 installs are not hard but they're significantly more involved than a 2v or 3v due to the super duper tight spaces.

 

[voidfinger]

yea i know tight spaces = hurt knuckles. I know that for a fact

 

[Mesarina]

mine cleared the MC when we dropped it in from the top. Requires a little wiggling and you DEFINITELY need a load leveler on your cherry picker to drop it in from the top but it clears the MC with about an inch to spare. The 4v motors are a little tighter fit. I designed a set of small spacers for the k-member for 4v swaps. Use .4" for the k-membere and .2" for the tranny mount.

could you please post pics of those spacers??? :santa_afro:

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I bet they are chunks of metal with bolt holes in them, roughly the same pattern as the motor mount...

 

[r3dn3ck]

mine cleared the MC when we dropped it in from the top. Requires a little wiggling and you DEFINITELY need a load leveler on your cherry picker to drop it in from the top but it clears the MC with about an inch to spare. The 4v motors are a little tighter fit. I designed a set of small spacers for the k-member for 4v swaps. Use .4" for the k-membere and .2" for the tranny mount.

could you please post pics of those spacers??? :santa_afro:

Nope. They were designed on paper and never produced. I spoke with Chuck Schwynoch from Maximum Motorsports extensively a couple years ago about them. After a little working out of some details we figured about the maximum spacer thickness you can use without screwing up a bunch of other things. Unfortunately, he seemed to think at the time (and I agreed) that there was a lack of market for them. I may be able to convince someone to make them, or I might just make some now that 5.4 swaps are more common. We'll see.

I've given out the thickness specs here and there so if you find one of those old posts somewhere feel free. Basically you're just fabbing some specific thickness mounting spacer plates for the k-member and tranny mounts.

Remember, this is only useful on 4v swaps really. 2v don't really gain anything from it in the way of space that's useful.

 

[voidfinger]

so one question Red, does the 5.4 make the same peak hp as the 4.6? Say if the 4.6 is makeing 320 rwhp with some stage 2 or 3 heads and a big cam, would the 5.4 match that hp or make more? I'm just curious. I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row and make my mind up on what i'm going to be doing.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

HP is a make beleive figure that calculates how quickly an engine can perform work based on how much torque it makes at a given rpm.

HP = Torquexrpm/5252

So all thing's the same, but more torque, you will always get more HP

 

[voidfinger]

ahhh got ya. Thats cool, i guess i'll be going with a 5.4 2v then lol.

 

[r3dn3ck]

so one question Red, does the 5.4 make the same peak hp as the 4.6? Say if the 4.6 is makeing 320 rwhp with some stage 2 or 3 heads and a big cam, would the 5.4 match that hp or make more? I'm just curious. I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row and make my mind up on what i'm going to be doing.

Depends on the combo. Without a proper 5.4L specific intake you'll have trouble getting much past 300rwhp as adapter plates interfere with a good third of the total available flow. The exhaust presents a similar situation. Good shorties might get you to 310-320 (with a proper intake) but you need longtubes to see the 330-360 range. 3v heads are needed to get beyond that at this point. Perhaps a major head modification can fix that. I have a spare head... I'll grind on it and see how things look.


Otherwise, yeah... for the most part you should expect tq gains in the 40-100lb area and hp gains depending on your setup can be from -5 to +130. If you do a fat cam and or ported heads (stage 2 or 3) you NEED to do the exhaust or you'll leave a bunch of hp and tq on the table.

 

[voidfinger]

ok thats cool, so how much will those long tubes be when they come out? also, how much will the hardballr be for the 5.4? thanks

 

[r3dn3ck]

ok thats cool, so how much will those long tubes be when they come out? also, how much will the hardballr be for the 5.4? thanks

I got wind that the intake is going to be retailing for 795. I'll beg Bob for a group purchase price for the first batch. We'll see.

Longtubes will probably cost 350-500 depending on coating. Just a guess based on the makers existing offerings.

 

[r3dn3ck]

Just got some killer info from Chuck Schwynoch at MM. Suffice it to say the spacer thing could easily be brought to production status. I'm off to work on it.

 

[atrainsgt]

I read through this thread and this seems like an awesome HP per $ upgrade. I'm sure this has been stated but I must have missed it when I read through. How much would this swap cost if I you got hold of the complete engine for $1200? Do you need the 5.4L ecu also?

 

[voidfinger]

ok thats cool, so how much will those long tubes be when they come out? also, how much will the hardballr be for the 5.4? thanks

I got wind that the intake is going to be retailing for 795. I'll beg Bob for a group purchase price for the first batch. We'll see.

Longtubes will probably cost 350-500 depending on coating. Just a guess based on the makers existing offerings.

Cool, 350 isn't bad for a set of long tubes. Hmm the intake is quite pricey though, in case you haven't noticed i'm hella cheap lol.

 

[r3dn3ck]

I read through this thread and this seems like an awesome HP per $ upgrade. I'm sure this has been stated but I must have missed it when I read through. How much would this swap cost if I you got hold of the complete engine for $1200? Do you need the 5.4L ecu also?

tq per $ is insane, hp per dollar is average to good then it goes to unbelievable real fast once you cross certain thresholds.

Swap cost depends on which methodology you use and how much work you do yourself. Get the new HPS intake and you'll need aftermarket fuel rails, a tune, a flywheel and a bunch of fluids + the intake. Use adapter plates and you'll need just a tune, a flywheel and a bunch of fluids in addition to the adapter plates. You use your stock ECU and wiring harness. You shouldn't even have to extend any wires... I didn't. That's really all there is as far as purchasing stuff.

I'd recommend having the engine freshened up and installing a set of inexpensive H-beam rods if you plan to use any power adders (PM me for details) but that can be a good bit more costly and isn't always necessary.

If I got hold of a complete engine for 1200 bucks, you'd be out the gate doing all the work yourself and using the HPS intake... probably 2500-2900 bucks all in. For that you get brutal torque, oodles of street and strip fun and the ability to electronically detune for 87 octane when gas prices go through the roof (via a 2nd tune on your handheld or switch-chip).

 

[atrainsgt]

With that I would have a 12.xx second car? My goal is under an 11.50 1/4 mile, HP numbers don't mean that much to me. I will be doing all the work myself.

 

[r3dn3ck]

12's should be there with a base 5.4 install and tune.. If you can drive it to the times and you have a good motor 12.8 or 12.9 shouldn't be too hard to come by at all, get your launch down and it's better. For 11's you'll need to go further with mods.

The swap will be all but free for you since you're doing the work. If you need one I have a spare new 11" nodular iron 8-bolt flywheel for 01.5-04 5 speed gt. Needed for swaps to 5.4's on those years GT's. Earlier years use 10.5" flywheel or convert to 11" clutch. I converted to a 10.5" clutch.

Also have a complete 11" clutch and 6 bolt flywheel.

Both are shipping + 30 bucks.

 

[voidfinger]

or you can get an auto and have some killer tq ahhahahahahaha. J/K Torque kicks ass.

 

[atrainsgt]

I'm running my numbers right now. I have some cash I set back just for my car that I was going to use on suspension but its enough to buy the engine and then some so I may just go ahead and buy the engine. It won't be going in my car for a while because if I'm adding this much torque I want a T-56 also. The t-56 uses an 11" clutch I believe so I will need a 11" clutch and flywheel. I'll PM you when I get everything lined up. I'm real picky about my engines and where they come from so it may take me a couple months to find a satisfactory 1. Will the stock intake clear my hood? I read somewhere in this thread about a custom intake you were working on. I wouldn't mind leaving my hood off for the time being if I had to.

12's should be there with a base 5.4 install and tune.. If you can drive it to the times and you have a good motor 12.8 or 12.9 shouldn't be too hard to come by at all, get your launch down and it's better. For 11's you'll need to go further with mods.
The swap will be all but free for you since you're doing the work. If you need one I have a spare new 11" nodular iron 8-bolt flywheel for 01.5-04 5 speed gt. Needed for swaps to 5.4's on those years GT's. Earlier years use 10.5" flywheel or convert to 11" clutch. I converted to a 10.5" clutch.

Also have a complete 11" clutch and 6 bolt flywheel.

Both are shipping + 30 bucks.