5.4 ?????

[r3dn3ck]

I can rev mine to 7K no problem. My get a little valve float with my cam but the bottom end will easily hold 8K.

If you want to rev it, you have to build it for the revs. 4340 i-beams and hard bearings and a set of ARP studs top and bottom. Other than that RPM is all cam and spring selection. I've revved mine all the way to 6300 under load.

Doing B-heads will require a modded intake. It's not impossible. B-heads make fat power on the 5.4's thanks to their huge port volume. Al Papito may be able to set you up with one of his short runner intakes, otherwise... make one.

 

[voidfinger]

yea maybe. I know there is a guy on here with a yellow b headed cobra that he put the 5.4 in. He had some custom adapter plates put in there and said it worked great. Wonder wow bad that would hurt the air flow on a b headed 4v.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

yea maybe. I know there is a guy on here with a yellow b headed cobra that he put the 5.4 in. He had some custom adapter plates put in there and said it worked great. Wonder wow bad that would hurt the air flow on a b headed 4v.

If they machine them right, or you blend them yourself, it wouldnt hurt airflow at all.

 

[r3dn3ck]

it's always going to mess with the flow a little cuz you're changing the shape and direction of the air flow column. 2v plates disrupt about 30% of the flow. 4v plates are at less of a nasty angle but they still are at an angle. The 96-98 cobra intakes were pretty good for the application though.

 

[myillwillinc]

wow with all the people looking at doing the 5.4 swap i could open a shop doing just that and stay busy....

 

[jfor441]

wow with all the people looking at doing the 5.4 swap i could open a shop doing just that and stay busy....

When you starting??? LMAO I am just up the road an hour away

 

[myillwillinc]

i already do powdercoating and soon anodizing, my garage is already full..... :santa_grin:

 

[voidfinger]

i was thinkng that with the b heads the ports come strait down from the intake into the heads... so i'm figuring that the ports with the plates will be crooked a little... wonder who would do them?

O and Red, i don't know if you didn't see it a while back but what would it take to make the 5.4 4v ? a 5.4 2v block and b heads, and cobra intake, what else beside adapter plates?... what front cover would i use?

 

[Steven]

i was thinkng that with the b heads the ports come strait down from the intake into the heads... so i'm figuring that the ports with the plates will be crooked a little... wonder who would do them?

O and Red, i don't know if you didn't see it a while back but what would it take to make the 5.4 4v ? a 5.4 2v block and b heads, and cobra intake, what else beside adapter plates?... what front cover would i use?

well the gt500 uses a 5.4 4v.. so that is one option with the front cover, and maybe navigator one could work since they were 5.4 4v right? I'd think the 5.4 2v would be fun but honestly the 4v would be the only way to go. It'll have enough air to make massive power like an old schooll big block could

 

[r3dn3ck]

4v motors can make easily upwards of 500rwhp if you spin them to 7K+. Besides the block and heads for a 4v you'll need some .4" spacers for the K-member (this is not mandatory but makes it lots easier), .2" spacers for the tranny mount, a 4v 5.4L front cover and tensioner and your donor 4.6 for accessories and stuff. There's bound to be a grip of little things but nothing you can't get from Kragen.

I would start with a 4v navigator block so you don't have to drill any holes but a 2v block will work with 1 hole drilled. After that, it's all the same stuff that changes from 4.6 to 5.4. B-head intakes are modded by Al Papito for about 1000 bucks.

Figure with longtubes and a proper intake, done right with stage 2 cams and lightly ported heads in each case you can expect to be able to make as much as (+/- 20%):
5.4 2v ~ 340rwhp/tq
5.4 3v ~ 375rwhp/350tq
5.4 4v ~ 425+rwhp/400tq

Those are good numbers to shoot for. If you use stock headers or shorties, then you'll have a hard time ever reaching much more than about 300rwhp and 380rwtq. Remember, nothing is certain except that longtubes make the swap worth it on paper, but any header makes it worth it to your butt.

 

[Steven]

well red do you think a 5.4 4v would be able to hit the 500hp mark n/a? I think so with around 11:1 compression, worked heads, cams, matching intake, and all the right stuff

 

[Jrgunn5150]

A big bore, with 13:1 (11:1 isn't high at all, hell it's factory on alot of engines), great 4v head's, custom cams, and a sheetmetal intake could toucc 500 rwhp probably, but that's only bench racing.

The little bore and 2v head's just won't flow the air, period, to support that power level. Adding cubes through stroking will not help the situation.

 

[Steven]

A big bore, with 13:1 (11:1 isn't high at all, hell it's factory on alot of engines), great 4v head's, custom cams, and a sheetmetal intake could toucc 500 rwhp probably, but that's only bench racing.

The little bore and 2v head's just won't flow the air, period, to support that power level. Adding cubes through stroking will not help the situation.

agreed.. after reading more articles and really digging into the design of the modular motors, the 4.6 and 5.4 really require high compression and 4v heads.. sorry to you 2v guys but you really do need a 4v head to make the most out of these motors performance wise. After all the 4.6 barely works with 2v heads in just a pi motor, how would they make it on a 2v 5.4 efficiently.

 

[jfor441]

A big bore, with 13:1 (11:1 isn't high at all, hell it's factory on alot of engines), great 4v head's, custom cams, and a sheetmetal intake could toucc 500 rwhp probably, but that's only bench racing.

The little bore and 2v head's just won't flow the air, period, to support that power level. Adding cubes through stroking will not help the situation.

agreed.. after reading more articles and really digging into the design of the modular motors, the 4.6 and 5.4 really require high compression and 4v heads.. sorry to you 2v guys but you really do need a 4v head to make the most out of these motors performance wise. After all the 4.6 barely works with 2v heads in just a pi motor, how would they make it on a 2v 5.4 efficiently.

The whole point of what Red is doing with the 2V 5.4 is NOT an ultimate performance motor. He is building a torque monster street machine. Look at his dyno sheet. Notice how the torque goes straight up real early in the RPM's and stays there til he shuts it down. That is what he was looking for. Read the link he posted to Mustangboards.com. Plenty of folks told him when he started doing this how much of a waste of time it was. IMO, he is one of the big reasons that 5.4 is getting to become a viable performance alternative to a 4.6. Hell, he has been working with the guys who developed the Hardball'r intake and talked them into making a 5.4 2V intake. He is getting a company to make a set of longtube headers for Mustangs with 5.4 swapped engine. You take a 2V 5.4 and put a blower on it and the sky is the limit.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I agree, the 5.4 totally has it's place, sling one in an auto car with 3.55 gear's and have a VERY nice cruiser/street fighter.

But people keep pooping in with "what if I use 4v heads, and twin turbos feeding a whipple", not the point.

I bet you could get a rebuilt 5.4 with aftermarket cams sitting between your strut's for about 3k, total cost involved, which is on par with a decently built 4.6, and will give you a torque curve like a Kenne Bell (albeit lower). And you should be able to knock down 18-20 mpg, and run the thing for 75-100k without a problem.

In hindsight, if I had a NPI GT again, I wouldn't even goof around with a Vortech, or intake swap's. I'd get the 5.4, rebuild it, get a set of custom gound cams (you can use narrower LSA on the bigger 5.4), longtube's, a mid pipe, and a 3200 rpm converter if I had an auto. And I would kick major ass on the street, regardles if I had a big peak number to brag about.

 

[Steven]

i understand its not what he was aiming for, i just meant that in essence a 5.4 4v is the ultimate modular performance motor straight across the board. I've had some cars that had low HP numbers yet had a ridiculous torque number and it caused alot of issues driving it due to it liking to smoke the back tire off. I'm just someone that prefers to have the powerband up a bit off the 1000-2000 rpm band, hence why i care for 4v's more, there a bit more driveable built then a built 2v, but like everything its just who built it and it's main goal. I like a hard pull into crazy rpm's, such as a 4v pulling to 7500-9000rpm's when built right. It's just what i prefer mainly because i can slap a tall gear out back with a 5 speed and it still has good street manners till i hit about 3500-5000rpm's.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Well in general what you are saying is right, in general. My 2v was a 4.6/5.0 stroker, I had VT stage II heads, VT stage II SC cams, a Novi 2200, a VS t56, and 4.30 gear's. This combo liked to be shifted at 7200, peak power happened at 7600. Not that I drove it like that, I drove it like a normal car, normally lol. But that is where my 2v wanted to go, if I really wanted it to run hard.

Now my Terminator has the factory rev limiter at 6250, and according to all the dyno sheet's I've seen there would be no gain in removing it or revving it higher.

A 4v N/A would be less peaky than the 2v at the same power lever, because it would require less radical components to get there.

A motor making peak torqu low, just get's taller gear's, actually a good thing, for 99% of us on the street, throttle response and pusch back in the seat is all we are after and need.

 

[voidfinger]

hmmm, I don't know, The 4v might be more trouble than its worth. I'm just wanting something different than the 2v sohc deal.... but i can't denie that the custom cam, long tube, 3.27/3.55 gear, and 3000/3200 stall was my original plan lol. Realisticly i want to know what it will run in the quarter with my heavy ass vert.

 

[Steven]

hmmm, I don't know, The 4v might be more trouble than its worth. I'm just wanting something different than the 2v sohc deal.... but i can't denie that the custom cam, long tube, 3.27/3.55 gear, and 3000/3200 stall was my original plan lol. Realisticly i want to know what it will run in the quarter with my heavy ass vert.

do a 3v swap.. the guy who did it on MF's was runnin mid to low 12's.. its about as difficult as doing a 4 valve swap, but you can get easy to find stock 3v heads and stock 3v intake

 

[Jrgunn5150]

hmmm, I don't know, The 4v might be more trouble than its worth. I'm just wanting something different than the 2v sohc deal.... but i can't denie that the custom cam, long tube, 3.27/3.55 gear, and 3000/3200 stall was my original plan lol. Realisticly i want to know what it will run in the quarter with my heavy ass vert.

So basically the 5.4 combo I outlined? If you can't run a bottom without even trying, so sell it and get a Veetek lol.