junkman306
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Any updates on this?
Help with a TEKSID 4.6/5.0 stroker 2V /TIPS AND TRICKS FOR INSTALLING
- Thread starter jwyche
- Start date
Junkman:
Oh, yeah. On the Mustang dyno, with 40 miles on the engine, it did 259 HP and 268 Torque N/A. With the nitrous it was 357 HP and 360 torque. As you might guess, I had much higher hopes than that, but, at this point, it is what it is.
The tuner really beat me up over the short tube headers. He said I could expect 15 to 20 HP and more torque from a set of long tubes. His price for installing a set (dropping the K member to do so) is only $325!!
In the driving, the stall on the converter is 2800-3200 and really isn't quite enough with these cams. It asks to cruise in second gear and when it's driven that way around town, its very responsive.
The little 5.0 is very cool at a traffic light though, it hit's a nice lick and the fenders shake a little bit rocking the car. It maintains it's smooth idle when the A/C is turned on.
The car drives like it has a lot more torque than the dyno indicates as it pulls away strongly at part throttle. When floored from a stop, the engine flashes just past the torque band and falls back into the band, the tires spin and the car slides sideways.
The tach will scream past 7500 RPM if you let it and does so effortlessly. However, according to the Mustang Dyno and the Butt Dyno, it's only making a nice noise.
The computer is set to shift at 6500 and up until the shift, it feels almost "turbo-like". You know that sensation of "the faster you go the faster you can go" I'm talking about?
When driven hard and shifted manually from first to second, it seems to run hard. A trip to the strip in the next few weeks will tell the tale, though.
The cams and the Victor Jr. push the torque up the scale and the car really comes to life at 3500 and hits about 4500 on torque. The power and torque cross each other at 5900 and then the HP goes on up to 268 and stays flat to 7200 when it starts to fall off.
So, other than the long tubes, what would y'all suggest to do next?
I do have an opportunity to buy a stage 4 Eaton off a Lightning at a very reasonable price. I'm checking to see if it will work with the new Tork Tech kit that allows you to mount one on a 2V engine. http://shop.torktech.com/index.aspx
Out of the box I have to say this little car is a blast to drive. Even though the body has 178,000 miles on it, I've put every one of them on it. The car is still in excellent condition, tight, and rattle free.
Now I need to find a buyer for the red Fox.
BTW, Trashman, I used to live out in Centralia, MO. Lots of nice, empty, straight roads between the corn and soy beans
out there to open up and enjoy your car.
Jim
Oh, yeah. On the Mustang dyno, with 40 miles on the engine, it did 259 HP and 268 Torque N/A. With the nitrous it was 357 HP and 360 torque. As you might guess, I had much higher hopes than that, but, at this point, it is what it is.
The tuner really beat me up over the short tube headers. He said I could expect 15 to 20 HP and more torque from a set of long tubes. His price for installing a set (dropping the K member to do so) is only $325!!
In the driving, the stall on the converter is 2800-3200 and really isn't quite enough with these cams. It asks to cruise in second gear and when it's driven that way around town, its very responsive.
The little 5.0 is very cool at a traffic light though, it hit's a nice lick and the fenders shake a little bit rocking the car. It maintains it's smooth idle when the A/C is turned on.
The car drives like it has a lot more torque than the dyno indicates as it pulls away strongly at part throttle. When floored from a stop, the engine flashes just past the torque band and falls back into the band, the tires spin and the car slides sideways.
The tach will scream past 7500 RPM if you let it and does so effortlessly. However, according to the Mustang Dyno and the Butt Dyno, it's only making a nice noise.
The computer is set to shift at 6500 and up until the shift, it feels almost "turbo-like". You know that sensation of "the faster you go the faster you can go" I'm talking about?
When driven hard and shifted manually from first to second, it seems to run hard. A trip to the strip in the next few weeks will tell the tale, though.
The cams and the Victor Jr. push the torque up the scale and the car really comes to life at 3500 and hits about 4500 on torque. The power and torque cross each other at 5900 and then the HP goes on up to 268 and stays flat to 7200 when it starts to fall off.
So, other than the long tubes, what would y'all suggest to do next?
I do have an opportunity to buy a stage 4 Eaton off a Lightning at a very reasonable price. I'm checking to see if it will work with the new Tork Tech kit that allows you to mount one on a 2V engine. http://shop.torktech.com/index.aspx
Out of the box I have to say this little car is a blast to drive. Even though the body has 178,000 miles on it, I've put every one of them on it. The car is still in excellent condition, tight, and rattle free.
Now I need to find a buyer for the red Fox.
BTW, Trashman, I used to live out in Centralia, MO. Lots of nice, empty, straight roads between the corn and soy beans
out there to open up and enjoy your car.
Jim
junkman306
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Awesome!!!! I was hoping for closer to the 300 mark, but 259 isn't bad. I've got a buddy that has a crapload of flow charts on the difference between long and short tube headers and after seeing and reading all of it I'd definitely go longtubes. The "more torque than the dyno indicates" feeling has got to be because of the converter. It allows the car to move at a higher rpm than the old one. Sounds like a good time though!!!! Get it to the track!!!! I wanna hear what it runs!!!!!
duff daddy
Legend
Sounds good Jim, this is great to hear your not like alot of guys who chase a number or are dead set on hitting a number, so congrats and sounds like the car is making healthy and quality numbers. Good job.
duff daddy
Legend
ps get some pictures of this engine!!!!
very nice build, but i dont get it. i'm new to mod motor builds so cut me some slack, but is the teksid just for strength?
i have seen atleast a handful of NPI shortblocks with pi H/C/I and auto do close to 300whp, why the low numbers is compression dropped for forced induction? and this is stroked to 5.0.
sorry, just trying to gain some 2v knowledge!
i have seen atleast a handful of NPI shortblocks with pi H/C/I and auto do close to 300whp, why the low numbers is compression dropped for forced induction? and this is stroked to 5.0.
sorry, just trying to gain some 2v knowledge!
McCloud
Active Member
Those are surprisingly low numbers for that combo. Did you degree the cams when you installed them?
McCloud,
That's how I thought, too. Yes, we did degree the cams. Bought all the right stuff to do it.
Actually, I haven't pulled the CAI off to check, but I'm wondering if the throttle blades are fully opening.
If you have ideas, I would certainly welcome them.
Do you think the automatic would affect it that much? A recent article I read stated that the auto pulls about 50-60 HP out. Take a look at this:
From the outset, Lutton told us the engine was capable of making similar power to the '03-'04 Cobra Terminator. Armed with that information, those cars regularly put down 340 rwhp on the Radical Racing dyno in bone-stock trim. Why didn't Silver Stealth Stang achieve that mark? The answer lies in the slushbox Ford nicknamed the 4R70W. Using the popular 15-percent conversion from stick to auto, our calculator showed a Terminator engine should make 289 rwhp if backed by an auto. The engine barely has 150 miles on the odometer, so we think once it's broken in, the power will rise about another 5-10 rwhp, bringing it inline with our estimate. Editor Smitty told us that he has personally compared the auto and stick transmission in a back-to-back test with an old project car. He saw a loss of 50-60 rwhp, which backs up our guesstimate. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/projectcars/mmfp_0907_modular_mustang_racing_stroker_engine_build_part_2/index.html
Make me want to heat up the plastic and swap to a Tremec 600 (the one in my 2008 Bullitt is extremely smooth) ASAP.
But in the afore mentioned article, they are doing better than me with stock manifold.
Thanks for taking time to comment.
Jim
That's how I thought, too. Yes, we did degree the cams. Bought all the right stuff to do it.
Actually, I haven't pulled the CAI off to check, but I'm wondering if the throttle blades are fully opening.
If you have ideas, I would certainly welcome them.
Do you think the automatic would affect it that much? A recent article I read stated that the auto pulls about 50-60 HP out. Take a look at this:
From the outset, Lutton told us the engine was capable of making similar power to the '03-'04 Cobra Terminator. Armed with that information, those cars regularly put down 340 rwhp on the Radical Racing dyno in bone-stock trim. Why didn't Silver Stealth Stang achieve that mark? The answer lies in the slushbox Ford nicknamed the 4R70W. Using the popular 15-percent conversion from stick to auto, our calculator showed a Terminator engine should make 289 rwhp if backed by an auto. The engine barely has 150 miles on the odometer, so we think once it's broken in, the power will rise about another 5-10 rwhp, bringing it inline with our estimate. Editor Smitty told us that he has personally compared the auto and stick transmission in a back-to-back test with an old project car. He saw a loss of 50-60 rwhp, which backs up our guesstimate. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/projectcars/mmfp_0907_modular_mustang_racing_stroker_engine_build_part_2/index.html
Make me want to heat up the plastic and swap to a Tremec 600 (the one in my 2008 Bullitt is extremely smooth) ASAP.
But in the afore mentioned article, they are doing better than me with stock manifold.
Thanks for taking time to comment.
Jim
Duff Daddy said:
Thanks Mr. Duff Daddy. I've always felt the numbers are simply a clinical tool that helps find patterns in performance and where to make adjustments.
In Tune uses a Mustang Dyno, and regardless of the numbers on the dyno, the cars Scott Bowen tunes turn it great numbers at the strip, but he tunes for drivability first and high numbers second. I like that approach.
My 1992 GT was tuned for ultimate power once and it was so miserable to drive I didn't want to drive it.
Jim
Lee12609 said:
Lee,
No problem, my friend. I'm new to this side of the house, too. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
The Teksid, to me, is for strength (some reports say it's good for 1000 HP in stock form) and it's light weight. It's almost 100 pounds lighter than a cast block.
The lower compression is for future forced induction. You spotted that I gave up some power at this point to gain a bunch later on.
If you look up the article I referenced lower on the page, you'll see that the automatic takes a toll (to the tune of 50 to 60 HP) on the overall power output.
Also, some believe that the Mustang Dyno consistently shows lower numbers than, say, a Dyno Jet. However, after being tuned on a Mustang Dyno with lower numbers, my 1992 GT 347 ran 7.4 elapsed time at the strip. A full .6 faster. That may have a lot to do with the tuner, though.
You are in the right place here to learn a lot about the mod stuff.
Jim
McCloud
Active Member
jwyche said:
Well I must've skipped over where you said it was a Mustang Dyno. Those typically dyno lower anyways. How much exactly I don't know.
I read that same article you quoted. An automatic does not soak up 15% more power than a stick. I've always heard 12-15% loss with 5spd and 18-20% loss with an automatic. So you would see an automatic takes up anywhere from 3-8% more if that.
I'm with Duff though, dyno numbers don't mean anything to me. What matters to me is the ET. When I was running my VT Stg 2/longtube/PI swap combo, I put down 278/306 through an auto. Not the best numbers, but it ran damn well at the track.
Put some more miles on it, let it break in, and then give us some new dyno numbers.
duff daddy
Legend
You need to remember that intakemanifold is designed for blower or HIGH rpm applications ie 7k+ soo your not going to make power that high becasue of your cams morethen likely but if you toss a blower on there then you definaly will open things up.
duff daddy
Legend
Alot, and i mean ALOT of ppl use the stock pi manifold and have AWESOME results, its really the best manifold for them oney for a "normal" powerband.
What dish pistons did you go with?
You can give up an easy 10hp N/A with lower C/R so if you factor that in with the auto and Mustang Dyno I don't think your #'s are low at all.
You can give up an easy 10hp N/A with lower C/R so if you factor that in with the auto and Mustang Dyno I don't think your #'s are low at all.
Bob,
Thanks for the encouragement. All I have to compare it to is my 2008 Bullitt (it does feel much stronger than the 3V Bullitt) and my 347 1992 (it feels about the same as the 347 N/A). As I said before, it feels stronger than the numbers imply.
To answer your question about the dish, they are Probe Sportsman Race Series- 21.1 cc Dish 9.3:1 w/ PI Heads and Akerly & Childs Extreme Moly Piston RIngs. The CNC Stage 2 Patriot heads dropped the compression about three-quarters of a point over the standard PI heads. I thought about milling the heads, but wasn't sure how the timing chains would take it. However, this set up will respond to nitrous since everything is forged, or to forced induction.
I also had the pistons notched for valve clearance.
Bob, thanks a lot for your observations. I'm always open to suggestions.
Jim
Thanks for the encouragement. All I have to compare it to is my 2008 Bullitt (it does feel much stronger than the 3V Bullitt) and my 347 1992 (it feels about the same as the 347 N/A). As I said before, it feels stronger than the numbers imply.
To answer your question about the dish, they are Probe Sportsman Race Series- 21.1 cc Dish 9.3:1 w/ PI Heads and Akerly & Childs Extreme Moly Piston RIngs. The CNC Stage 2 Patriot heads dropped the compression about three-quarters of a point over the standard PI heads. I thought about milling the heads, but wasn't sure how the timing chains would take it. However, this set up will respond to nitrous since everything is forged, or to forced induction.
I also had the pistons notched for valve clearance.
Bob, thanks a lot for your observations. I'm always open to suggestions.
Jim
Wow your C/R may be lower then 9.3 with those 21cc pistons, ported heads generally have an additional 2cc of material removed from combustion chamber area and the notches in the pistons lower even more. You are probably @ 9.0 or a tad under that but like you said you are ready for boost.
I have the 23cc Manley pistons and ported heads and basic estimates have me @ 8.9ish C/R so i'm thinking you are in the same ballpark.
Not so great for N/A power, probably 15-20rwhp under a PI swapped car with cams and P&P'd heads.
I was just at 285rwhp with that setup through an auto on a dyno jet for reference.
I have the 23cc Manley pistons and ported heads and basic estimates have me @ 8.9ish C/R so i'm thinking you are in the same ballpark.
Not so great for N/A power, probably 15-20rwhp under a PI swapped car with cams and P&P'd heads.
I was just at 285rwhp with that setup through an auto on a dyno jet for reference.
You are correct. The actual CR was 8.75 I believe. I have the build sheet around somewhere that shows the calculations, but I think that is right.
I believe with that CR and forged internals you could really crank some boost to it, don't you?
I believe with that CR and forged internals you could really crank some boost to it, don't you?
duff daddy
Legend
wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 22. cc dish holy god lol MY PISTONS COME OUT OF MY BLOCK lol jesus, build for boost i guess.
