How do I hit 600rwhp?

alex302

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Don't underestimate the meth kit I have seen turbo cars pick 80 to 100 HP on there setups with meth. There was an article in one of the mustang mags that a 95 turbo car pick close to 90hp by running more boost and less timing with meth. I wish I could fine the link but I lost it.
 

Dalamar

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97 here's how I look at it.

1- you need cool dense air going into the motor, IE intercooler and you also have your Meth kit to accomplish this.
Dense air = more oxygen = more power, and it doesn't cost power to produce.

2- next you need to look at the air flow of your combination. blower and heads/cams/TB. if there is a restriction in these componants, you will only be able to push so much air through it...

make sense?
 
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97stanger

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Thanks for the response guys. I honestly dont know if I could have went with that much better of a h/c/i setup...I mean no they arent trickflow heads with monster cams...but MMR worked PI heads, competition valve job, port matched Vic jr manifold, custom grind blower cams, 6061 sheetmetal race plenum, 75mm throttle body.....

Like mentioned, maybe I'm just underestimating my meth setup and maybe I'll pick up some crazy power...but I dont want to plan on that.

There really isnt a need to go to a smaller blower pulley because like we also said it seems like I'm overspinning the SI the way it is, so this would only make matters worse.

I think what I'm going to do is first get this car tuned with the meth and see how it responds. If i'm still not happy I am going to pull the trigger on a YSI blower and then step down to a 2.8 pulley and I'm sure that would put me in the range where I want to be.
 
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97stanger

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I think I'm going to take my meth system off this winter and sell it, all these tuners I talk to dont really want to touch the car and tune with meth as a 50/50...they all seem to be a fan of E85 or straight meth and not 50/50.

Yeah definitely my95gtstang...we have tons of guys in the pa/nj/de area on this site. about 12-15 of us met up for the AM show which was an awesome time. I'm meeting up with some guys for Carlisle/Mustang Week too
 

Brian95SVT

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Yeah definitely my95gtstang...we have tons of guys in the pa/nj/de area on this site. about 12-15 of us met up for the AM show which was an awesome time. I'm meeting up with some guys for Carlisle/Mustang Week too

I'm still down here in VA but hell I'd make a trip up and grab a hotel room if enough people were going. Maybe I can plan to come up for one of those events!
 
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97stanger

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sounds like a plan, keep in touch when the time gets closer!
 

Dalamar

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i've heard a number of horror stories involving meth issues and blown motors....

Interested to see how this progresses
 

Brian95SVT

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i've heard a number of horror stories involving meth issues and blown motors....

Interested to see how this progresses

Really? I have a bunch of friends who have been running it for years. I guess it just all depends on the application and the tune.
 

sneaky98gt

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97, is your setup intercooled?

Methanol is freaking fantastic stuff.....if tuned for properly.

Get the AFR correct WITHOUT methanol, get the timing safe WITHOUT methanol, and have the computer pull/add timing based on the cooler IATs. Simple as that. If done properly, there is 0 chance of hurting your motor. Matter of fact, it will make more power AND do it more safely. How many mods can you think of that do that? Not many, if any at all. A lot of people blow motors with meth by tuning the AFR with the methanol (i.e. leaning it out), or adding timing to the base spark tables on the premise that the methanol is spraying. If it is done this way, and something happens with the meth. Kaboom.

Not sure what kind of IATs you are looking at, and how much the meth would cool them down, but on my non-intercooled blower car, it was LOT. 120+ degrees kind of lot. It would go from 220+ with no meth, to less than 110 with it. At any given point, it was 150-160. So on my particular setup, if the IATs go over 150, then the meth is definitely not spraying and I want it to pull timing FAST. The tune does just this, as the base timing tables were done without the meth. If it stays below 150, then the meth is definitely spraying, and the computer ramps the timing up by around 8 degrees up top. It's really quite simple actually.

On the dyno, my car did not pick up a great deal of power with the methanol, around 20ish rwhp. BUT, my track times tell a very different story. Went to the track last weekend, made a pass on my primary tune (which is setup correctly for methanol), ran a 12.09 @ 117.5 mph. A half hour or so later, I made another pass. This time, the indicator light was on, there was meth in the tank, it was SUPPOSED to be working. Well, I noticed it felt a bit slower, checked my laptop at the end of the run....200+ degree IATs the entire run! What the hell!? I still don't know why it didn't work that run, as it worked flawlessly for the rest of the day. BUT, the computer pulled timing, kept it safe, and I made a perfectly safe pass without any methanol. On that run, I ran a 12.52 @ 110.2 mph.

So on the same tune, which is made to be safe both with and without methanol, I picked up .4 seconds and 7 mph in the 1/4 mile. How's that for a nice mod!?

As far as the mixes go, it really depends on what you are trying to do. The 'water' part does most of the cooling, while the methanol part is what allows you to run a bunch of timing. Pure methanol will allow you to run much more timing, and make more power/run better times. But the problem with straight methanol is that it won't decrease the IATs as much, especially with an intercooler, and will make it harder to get the tune to correctly (and safely) add/pull timing based on the IATs. More water = cooler temps, and easier to tune by, but can't run as much timing with it. Most of the people in my area recommend 50/50, but I run windshield washer fluid (30/70) and 21 degrees of timing on 8 pounds of boost with no problems. A guy in my area with a very similar setup as mine is running 24 degrees with 50/50, and has been for years now with 0 problems.

Oh, and don't be afraid to hit it with a lot of methanol. Some tuners will tell you to run as little meth as possible, and I personally think that's bad advice. While running too much is wasteful, more of it = safer. I'm hitting my setup with a combined 14 gallons/hour (900ish mL/min), which is a metric shit ton, and most tuners that I have encountered have laughed at me about it. But I have 0 problems with it, and damn does it run good (picked up 7 mph in the 1/4 with it.....hard to argue that); it has never once bogged on me, even when the ambient air was only 30ish degrees. Spraying that much, my AFR came down from 12.0 to about 11.1-11.3, which would imply a loss of power due to it being richer. BUT, that is deceiving, as methanol's stoichemetric number is not 14.7. It's something like 6.5, IIRC, which means that that 11.1 isn't actually 11.1. It's more like 11.5 or so.

Bottom line: if your looking to pick up a lot of power on the dyno, you're probably going to be dissatisfied with the methanol. If you are looking for a mod that will make a significant improvement to your times at the track, all the while making the entire motor safer, you will love it.
 

SRT Handz

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i bet you could pick up a really good amount of power with E85.
 
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97stanger

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thats great info sneaky98gt.

What you stated is exactly the research I did before buying the meth system, but come to find that tuners around me just dont like tuning with it at all.

Id have to find out exactly what my IATs are...but I know my tuner said with my intercooler setup now I'm barely above ambient temps even at 16-18psi...so maybe there really wouldnt be all that much to be had with meth...

Like handz said...I think this is the route I'm going to go. I have an E85 station 20 minutes from where I live AND I already have the fuel system to support E85. If anything, I may just have to swap from 60# injectors to 80#...but that would be it. The plan this winter is to take off the meth, fill up on E85 and go for tuning and see what it really has in it
 

sneaky98gt

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Yea, if you have a good FMIC (I think you do), then the methanol isn't going to bring the IATs down a whole lot. And this is going to make tuning it much more difficult.

E85 is going to accomplish the same thing methanol is (run more timing), but will be much easier to tune on a car that the IATs are already under control. If you already have the supporting fuel system to run it, I think it is a good idea and that you will be very happy with it. I know a guy on another forum with a Whippled 04 Cobra (04sleeper) that picked up 100 rwhp by converting over to E85.
 
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97stanger

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yeah seriously, maybe a shot of nitrous will settle me some lol
 

justinschmidt1

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I would just do the e85 and see how it goes.

You should pick up some power.

Probably not as much as a PD blower cobra, but I would think 50 rwhp is easily possible.
 

Yeti98

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I made 616 with my old setup.

281cid Iron Block
Bored .020 over
Diamond Pistons
Manley Rods
Kellogg Crank
Custom Grind Comp Cams
Clevites Cam Gears
Comp Bee Hive Springs
BBR Race Port PI Heads
+1mm Oversized Valves
Kenne Bell 2.8H Supercharger on 16 psi
TKO 600 Trans
FPW Returnless Fuel System


If I could do it all over again, I'd totally go with a HELLION Turbo System though.

yhst-14752229404082_2187_180989658


yhst-14752229404082_2187_70328651
 

justinschmidt1

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What RPM was that pull to YETI98?


I still dont understand how the car is nosing over at 6k like it is...

sucks if it really is the cams but I dont get how my PI cams can make power to 6500 rpms and your aftermarket blower cams die?

I would love to see datalog of IATS, boost, timing, vs RPMS.
 

justinschmidt1

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gotcha, looks about right.

I think the power your car(mike, 97stanger) is making is about right considering the cams or w/e wont let you make any power above 6k and the auto.


I know my car laid down 385 vs a car with the exact same setup and a 6 speed that made 431 hp at the wheels so the auto could be easily eating 50 rwhp vs a manual car.

That combined with the car not being able to make power above 6k, the power sounds about right.

I would take it to the track and see what it does.

Thats the only way to really judge the car.


I was kinda disappointed when my car only made 385 rwhp...but the track times were impressive and I have beat many cars with over 100 more rwhp than me
 

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