Is the 302 even worth building anymore

[bennylava]

Not far from me we have "junkyard alley" which is a long highway with something like 20 junkyards on it. We have ford heaven, GM heaven, honda heaven, something for only heavy equipment, it's a pretty cool place. No idea why it worked out that way or how they all ended up being so close to each other. I should be able to get a whole wrecked F250 there.

But yeah I think I have indeed sided with the godzilla because its a pushrod v8. The 302 would look period correct, but that makes me start questioning who would ever see it anyway. I guess I'm just too practical.

 

[Snorky]

Circling back around to how engines sound. I agree the coyote sound is different from the newer mustangs and not favored, but Im sure its the exhaust setups and whats available for the platform, because i know of some coyote swapped foxbodys and sn95's that do not sound like the newer mustangs.

Ive been watching Brian Wolfe pioneer the Godzilla. He has pushed the factory stock engine to 1000 hp and with relative ease. Id say if you have the coin and that damn hotroders itch to build something,....move forward with the godzilla.

Probably the muffler placement and actually having tail pipes that play a role.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

The small block Ford wasn’t really designed to handle THAT more than whatever Ford was making with it back in the 80’s and 90’s. Is it fair to put blame on it for being “weak”? 300 WHP is enough to have fun on the street. Keep in mind the design is probably older than the majority of people on this forum.

I believe that so long as you don’t expect something unrealistic, and you can do the work yourself, then it is absolutely worth it, because nothing hurts more than popping the hood on a classic and seeing an LS or a Coyote. Just doesn’t feel right.

For me, I think a GT40 setup with 3.55’s and a T5 will keep me happy indefinitely.

However, some companies make retro looking parts (including Foxbody style valve covers) for LS engines. If you can make new school look like old, then I’m listening…

 

[I_LIKE_TURTLEZ]

The small block Ford wasn’t really designed to handle THAT more than whatever Ford was making with it back in the 80’s and 90’s. Is it fair to put blame on it for being “weak”? 300 WHP is enough to have fun on the street. Keep in mind the design is probably older than the majority of people on this forum.

I believe that so long as you don’t expect something unrealistic, and you can do the work yourself, then it is absolutely worth it, because nothing hurts more than popping the hood on a classic and seeing an LS or a Coyote. Just doesn’t feel right.

For me, I think a GT40 setup with 3.55’s and a T5 will keep me happy indefinitely.

However, some companies make retro looking parts (including Foxbody style valve covers) for LS engines. If you can make new school look like old, then I’m listening…

All comes down to expectations and what people prioritize, I'm useless because if someone asks how to make max power like the OP.. I'm going to tell you to throw a big block or stroked LS in it because you get more power at a lot less cost.

If you bought a 302 car, it's probably because it's what you wanted, so I say just enjoy it for what it is.

The public car scene died 12 years ago anyway, every car coming out looks the same so it's no wonder young men have no interest in them anymore.


Let's be honest, 99% of people will wreck a 300rwhp car without electronic traction control to save them. It's plenty for the street I agree.

 

[weendoggy]

The public car scene died 12 years ago anyway, every car coming out looks the same so it's no wonder young men have no interest in them anymore.

I agree. If it doesn't have 4cyls, screams to high heaven, with big mega noise mufflers, heavily cambered (all 4) tires, and bounce like a baby buggy, it ain't a hot rod.

 

[bennylava]

The small block Ford wasn’t really designed to handle THAT more than whatever Ford was making with it back in the 80’s and 90’s. Is it fair to put blame on it for being “weak”? 300 WHP is enough to have fun on the street. Keep in mind the design is probably older than the majority of people on this forum.

I believe that so long as you don’t expect something unrealistic, and you can do the work yourself, then it is absolutely worth it, because nothing hurts more than popping the hood on a classic and seeing an LS or a Coyote. Just doesn’t feel right.

For me, I think a GT40 setup with 3.55’s and a T5 will keep me happy indefinitely.

However, some companies make retro looking parts (including Foxbody style valve covers) for LS engines. If you can make new school look like old, then I’m listening…

The problem with that line of thinking is that now you only match an LS1 car with that 302. They were dyno'd at around 300 hp at the wheels. So now your mustang has finally, at long last after 25 years, caught up to it's competition that could beat it even in it's own day. That's just pitiful, so I have to do something better. Back in those days I considered a 460 but on a teenager's income it wasn't happening.

 

[bennylava]

All comes down to expectations and what people prioritize, I'm useless because if someone asks how to make max power like the OP.. I'm going to tell you to throw a big block or stroked LS in it because you get more power at a lot less cost.

If you bought a 302 car, it's probably because it's what you wanted, so I say just enjoy it for what it is.

The public car scene died 12 years ago anyway, every car coming out looks the same so it's no wonder young men have no interest in them anymore.


Let's be honest, 99% of people will wreck a 300rwhp car without electronic traction control to save them. It's plenty for the street I agree.

I think "died" may be a bit strong. There's still car shows even in my smaller town. Unless you're talking about something else.

Us keeping these cars around and alive is what keeps the younger generation interested. Nothing lasts forever, and that includes things you don't like, such as high parts prices. Or unavailable parts. As 3D printing gets better and better, especially the metal ones, people will eventually just make most of their own parts. So 10 years from now I don't expect the old car scene to be smaller, it may even be bigger than it is now. And then you'll have (matured) ai to do all the figuring for you, so you won't even make a mistake. I actually see a bright future for the car hobby.

 

[95opal]

It's so outclassed by the modern engines that to me, the 302 is starting to look like a frail old antique. Even a stroked high hp 351 has "cap walk" problems according to the guys on the 460Ford forums. Unless you go with those aftermarket blocks, but that kind of speaks to my original question. If I can't build MY 302 and have a chance at beating modern cars, then why not just do a Godzilla conversion?

I know conversions are a whole big deal, and maybe that's why people still build up a 302. But you're kinda limited to power levels that modern cars start at. The 302 has been known to split open at 425-450 hp. For safety's sake, I think about 410 hp is all I would go for. I don't want to build an engine that dies 10,000 miles later. Or even less. I want it to last at least 75k miles, cause then I'd feel like I got my money's worth.

So does that mean I have to do a godzilla or coyote if I want reliability and high power? You would spend a lot of money to build a 302 way up. So why wouldn't you just put that money towards a conversion to an engine that can handle a lot more power?

At those prices, maybe just spend the extra $5k and have something that will beat just about anything.

A dart block isnt that much money and will support whatever you throw at it.

 

[I_LIKE_TURTLEZ]

I think "died" may be a bit strong. There's still car shows even in my smaller town. Unless you're talking about something else.

Us keeping these cars around and alive is what keeps the younger generation interested. Nothing lasts forever, and that includes things you don't like, such as high parts prices. Or unavailable parts. As 3D printing gets better and better, especially the metal ones, people will eventually just make most of their own parts. So 10 years from now I don't expect the old car scene to be smaller, it may even be bigger than it is now. And then you'll have (matured) ai to do all the figuring for you, so you won't even make a mistake. I actually see a bright future for the car hobby.

This is what most "car shows" look like across North America in 2025. Trust me you're out of the loop and "need to respect all builds bro".

This is what wins trophies now.

 

[95opal]

This is what most "car shows" look like across North America in 2025. Trust me you're out of the loop and "need to respect all builds bro".

This is what wins trophies now.

View attachment 46892

Its been that way for a while now umfortunately.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

The problem with that line of thinking is that now you only match an LS1 car with that 302. They were dyno'd at around 300 hp at the wheels. So now your mustang has finally, at long last after 25 years, caught up to it's competition that could beat it even in it's own day. That's just pitiful, so I have to do something better. Back in those days I considered a 460 but on a teenager's income it wasn't happening.

Keep in mind the LS1 is not only a significantly bigger engine than the 302, but also way newer design wise. The 302, as much as I think it is awesome, it stuck around for way too long.

It’s what Ford does. When they hit a home run, they are the best at just sitting on it until they can’t anymore. Although come to think about it, the LS1 came out in 97/98. At that point the 302 was only in the Explorer, and the Camaro competitor was the Cobra at the time.

If I am correct, that would mean the LS1’s main competitor was the 4V. Pretty even match I would say, especially with a ring and pinion upgrade for the 4V.

My point is, it’s not fair to compare the 302 against the LS1, as they were not meant to be competitors. You could compare the Cobra’s GT40 302 to the LT1 that came in the Camaro at the time, and find that they were somewhat competitive with each other, but the Camaro has always made more power. Much bigger engine.

If Ford ever stuck a GT40 351 in the Cobra (a normal Cobra not the Cobra R), then the LT1 would have had a real run for its money.

 

[Snorky]

The problem with that line of thinking is that now you only match an LS1 car with that 302. They were dyno'd at around 300 hp at the wheels. So now your mustang has finally, at long last after 25 years, caught up to it's competition that could beat it even in it's own day. That's just pitiful, so I have to do something better. Back in those days I considered a 460 but on a teenager's income it wasn't happening.

The LS engines aren't even that crazy. Outside of heads cam intake, they were limited on forced induction options for a long time.

 

[I_LIKE_TURTLEZ]

Even LS engines people replace the entire top end on to make power. They all do the cam, the ls2 intake,then the 799 heads or aftermarket to get into the 400s.

Sort of, depends on which model/year the LS is. My friend only had to do a cam & LS6 intake swap, less than $1k to make 425rwhp. Hard to argue with that recipe.

Not sure why we're comparing the old 302 to an LS, the displacement may not be far off but the cylinder heads are in different worlds of performance.


All a moot point now, the only domestic V8 yeet-box left is the Coyote after 2023. The Mustang outlived them all, having said that I suspect many states will try to outlaw the sale of gas in the near future.

 

[weendoggy]

This is what most "car shows" look like across North America in 2025. Trust me you're out of the loop and "need to respect all builds bro".

This is what wins trophies now.

View attachment 46892

Looks more like a doll collection. I walk right past these at shows I occasionally see.

 

[weendoggy]

My SBF Big Bore Boss block 347 puts out serious HP/Torque, close to 500/CHP on pump gas. Yes, it's in a 2300# car, but even in a Fox or SN body, that'll push quite a bit. imo

 

[maillemaker]

My son's 2003 PT Cruiser GT gets 215 HP. It's a turbocharged 4-cylinder.

This is on par with my 95 GT Mustang with it's old 302.

You can build a peppy 302 with an HCI upgrade, but that's not so cheap anymore. A simple HCI swap with GT40 heads can approach $4000 and that doesn't include rebuilding the shortblock.

 

[RAU03MACH]

I may be going to something like this down the line
Who knows

 

[95opal]

My son's 2003 PT Cruiser GT gets 215 HP. It's a turbocharged 4-cylinder.

This is on par with my 95 GT Mustang with it's old 302.

You can build a peppy 302 with an HCI upgrade, but that's not so cheap anymore. A simple HCI swap with GT40 heads can approach $4000 and that doesn't include rebuilding the shortblock.

A used vortech for 2500 will net you close to 400hp. Gotta build to fit your budget and hp goals.

 

[maillemaker]

A used vortech for 2500 will net you close to 400hp. Gotta build to fit your budget and hp goals.

Depends on what you have to start with. My original engine with 120K miles makes 5 PSI oil pressure at idle. Probably wouldn't be a good idea to just throw a supercharger on it and send it.

 

[95opal]

Depends on what you have to start with. My original engine with 120K miles makes 5 PSI oil pressure at idle. Probably wouldn't be a good idea to just throw a supercharger on it and send it.

youd have to first diagnose why pressure is so low. May be something simple as valve seals.