N/A 96-98 Cobra?

[blake_colvin]

OH NOOO why would you want to do that to your cobra..

lol im just jokeing i know why but i personelly would never put ford in chevy or chevy into ford

but thats beside the point.. anyway do you have a dyno sheet you can post up with supporting mods from when you had every bolt on and made 331whp with the on edge tune which would prob resulte in a good 310whp on a safe tune

its good to see a couple people has had 300+ without cams though makes me wonder if with termi heads and nice cams theres 400whp in our cars

 

[hottwheels04]

a good strong 400rwhp n/a 4 valve =

teckside block
5.1 stroker
fr500 heads/ ported c/ stock 4 valve cobra heads or 03-04 cobra heads
custom cams/ fr500 cams/stage 2 or 3 cams/ comp cams
long tubes
fullbolt ons.

that will net you about 450+crank hp n/a

so 350-400rwhp n/a

 

[95PGTTech]

a good strong 400rwhp n/a 4 valve =

teckside block
5.1 stroker
fr500 heads/ ported c/ stock 4 valve cobra heads or 03-04 cobra heads
custom cams/ fr500 cams/stage 2 or 3 cams/ comp cams
long tubes
fullbolt ons.

that will net you about 450+crank hp n/a

so 350-400rwhp n/a

you don't need the stroker to accomplish that.

blake, at the time I did it, I really didn't think it was anything special, I didn't ask for a sheet. I worked at the dyno shop at the time and figured there would be many more to come. over the next few months people really started asking B headed bolt on questions and that's when I realized even 302whp on 93 octane was up there in stock-longblock 96-98 motors.

 

[blake_colvin]

true i dont feel you need to be stroked for 400 but i do believe you will need to sacrafice some drivability to do so..

and i dont think its possible with b heads or at least its cheaper to go c heads with maybe some stage 1 blower/nitrous cams..

i want to see the person that has put together high compression c heads with big cams with long tubes and matching off road h/x pipe with dumps and a bigger maf and injectors with maybe under drive pullies with a diff water pump and an intake mani

with all bolt ons if you can net 310whp i feel with higher compression alone you could pull 325whp and if you had some shaved c heads and some huge cams if you cant get at least 375whp then in reality its a complete loss but. i know this is no lsx motor but if an lsx can pull 100-125whp off just heads and cam then why cant a 4 valve car.. yes i know its alot to do with displacment but even cam only lsx cars arent high compression

 

[95PGTTech]

you're going to have to give up drive ability, that's a given. a mod motor is going to make power at high rpms, so the only displacement increase that makes sense is either the 5.4 route or a 298 stroker that keeps the better rod ratios.

regardless, I think my setup, with higher compression pistons, custom cams and valvetrain, and a little work to a set of C heads and intake could make in the ballpark of 400whp on a kill tune on race gas. driveability would go to the shitter.

the most all out n/a modular made 537whp. personally, I'm not impressed.

 

[blake_colvin]

wow yea all out n/a 537whp isnt impressive but once you get to that point high compression loves nitrous so if you forge that im sure you can pull a good 700whp with a 150 shot and prob pull a very very low 10 in the 1/4

but thats another story theres sn95 cars with just under 400whp going low 11's but thats with 4.56 gear and a 3150 pound car but all thats another story/ segment

come to think of it all out n/a ls1 cars pull around 525whp.. so if a strocker 4v sn95 can do it thats not to shabby

 

[95PGTTech]

that was the nazty performance car - a boss block, stroked, fr500 heads, custom cams, custom valvetrain, ported and polished, ARH headers, fr500 intake worked, accufab tb. someone estimated the cost to a customer in the ballpark of $20,000

 

[blake_colvin]

well now that you mention the money it took thats a just crap lol

but a stroked 4.6 4v should ball park 500whp and i believe if you just forge a stock block considering we have texi blocks or whatever.. and then do the best heads and intake hopefully it would net 500whp

 

[95PGTTech]

I think the best I've seen come through JDM is a 298 stroker, ported 3V heads, N/A cams, made right around 400whp through an automatic. mid 11 second car in a 2005 (3600lbs with driver), drag radials, stock-type suspension. converter, cams were about the most I would say "street car". definitely not a daily driver, but not completely unliveable.

through a five speed and with a harsher cam, made 425rwhp. we've seen really no differences between worked 3V heads and 4V heads (N/A). the car probably wouldn't run as quick with a 5 speed, it'd hit the drag radials too hard.

 

[moboost]

I thought about building a n/a 5.4 when I lost my stock motor. Actually already had the pistons on order and everything. I then realized it was pointless to spend that much money for 400whp. While its is respectable why not just build a decent 4.6 and buy a nice charger and have a 600+whp car. On top of that a ported head/intake/big cam 4.6 wouldn't be worth a damn below 5k rpms.

Also my current setup has a set of comp stage III blower cams and while it did make more power on the dyno I think it was a mistake. These cars need all the bottom end power they can get and I believe my car was quicker with a set of navigator cams than it is with these blower cams. Unless your shooting for a dyno queen I would stay away from the huge ass cams, just my .02.

 

[blake_colvin]

95PGTTech your saying going from 5spd to auto the car only lost 25whp.. thats not shabby at all
ive got a buddy with a 99gt with a 5.4 swap blown on two stages of nitrous.. he was the second person to do the swap actually we believe and he had a tko900 and he made 465whp over spinning the blower by 2,000.. NO JOKE well since hes switched to an auto with the car un-tuned hes race a few people that was close when he had the 5spd and hes picked up about 2 cars untuned with the auto.. everyone things hes around 375whp now but me and him are suggesting hes closer to 400-430whp

but all this is beside the point another motor another car
i wouldnt think the 3v heads would be as good as 4v but then again if they have made the same numbers then why not but the real question would be are they cheaper and do they fit on our cobra's?

moboost
oh yea no doubt the car has to be streetable so i wouldnt go over stage 1 nitrous/blower cams..
and yeas with the money its cheper to forge a 4v and up the boost but that doesnt make it more practical for a daily driver..

come to think of it 400whp is nice for a daily and really is kinda too much for a daily but if its possible then why not..
actually if it were more possible to pull 350whp on a super safe tune off a heads and cam 4v n/a then why not go that route..
we are talkin n/a but if you can make 350whp on a safe tune then throw a 150 shot on it if you want to mess around onthe weekends and that would be far faster than any cam only lsx cars or any pullied only cobra's and most blown sn95's

and to be honest i dont think youd have to forge the block to run h/c/i and nitrous on the weekends as long as one doesnt abuse it that is

 

[moboost]

I don't see how heads on a n/a 4v set up would increase power enough to justify the work/money!?

And on the manual to auto swap, my car lost 80whp on the dyno going from a tko600 to a c4 but went from 7.21 to 6.90 in the 1/8.

 

[blake_colvin]

well we have almost excused time and money during the discussion of an n/a 4v lol i mean for someone like me with all bolt ons with blower i wouldnt be exactly breaking the bank to get some good cheap c heads and a nice cam if i got rid of the blower

now im not excusing money all together because one would prob have a good 4k in heads and cams and you can buy a blower for that..

many many people have done just that.. but what i am trying to acomplish is a thread that someone intrested in a n/a 4v can go and get all the fact on a n/a 4v.. if i had two sn95 cobras i know one of them would be all n/a for sure

 

[95PGTTech]

I thought about building a n/a 5.4 when I lost my stock motor. Actually already had the pistons on order and everything. I then realized it was pointless to spend that much money for 400whp. While its is respectable why not just build a decent 4.6 and buy a nice charger and have a 600+whp car. On top of that a ported head/intake/big cam 4.6 wouldn't be worth a damn below 5k rpms.

Also my current setup has a set of comp stage III blower cams and while it did make more power on the dyno I think it was a mistake. These cars need all the bottom end power they can get and I believe my car was quicker with a set of navigator cams than it is with these blower cams. Unless your shooting for a dyno queen I would stay away from the huge ass cams, just my .02.

I completely agree. My suggestion to most is to just put a centri on their 96-98 cobra and add intercooler, pulley, pumps, injectors, maf, exhaust, rods and pistons as needed. I was simply throwing my experiences out there.

my path of bolt ons I look back and find it to be a mistake and wish I just bought a centri.

 

[moboost]

I would love to see a dyno of before and after a head only install, would be interesting to see what it does to the over all power and under the curve. I honestly would be surprised if it produced more power than a set of l/t's. Not knocking anyone for trying it, I just don't think there is much if anything to be gained by it on an n/a set up.

I think the key to good power in a n/a set up is c.i.'s anyone looking to do n/a should go ahead and get themselves a nice dohc 5.4 if money isn't an issue! =)

 

[blake_colvin]

i too would love to see a before and after dyno of heads only installs..

im not saying this is all worth the money im just saying if its possible without stroking/boreing the block

 

[95PGTTech]

^^ I agree.
Mod motors, it's in the cams, compression, and cubes.
B heads, especially, flow extremely well.

Most of the benefit of swapping to C heads like I did is actually the SMALLER intake ports = higher port velocities = much more low end/mid range power

 

[blake_colvin]

exactly thats why i would want c heads for.. b heads do fine on f.i. but there not much for a n/a build i would think

 

[OnyxCobra]

Why do people talk about B headed Cobras like there's a big problem with them if the heads flow really well?

 

[95PGTTech]

Why do people talk about B headed Cobras like there's a big problem with them if the heads flow really well?

the heads don't flow really well for n/a applications.
the heads flow a lot of volume

they do not move a lot of air quickly, especially at low camshaft lifts, which is the key to an effective/fun street/strip N/A engine.

John Mihovetz makes more than 2000HP at the crank through a factory (albeit highly ported, it is a factory casting) B headed setup. No one is questioning their high-rpm, big-boost, big-power capability.
But it is the same reason a F3R 113 procharger does not work on a 96 Cobra.