Need advice on stroker motor for 10psi blower!

[Matt94GT]

Should be fun

 

[ryclef331]

I have a stock block with stock internals... 302 ci, ported and polished stock GT40's stock ported Cobra upper and lower intake stock cobra cam... compression is stock maybe 9.0-9.5:1... your blower may not make the same horsepower as mine at the same psi, just because mine pushes more volume of air... PROCHARGER RULES ... :thumb: (as far as superchargers go anyways) I know that at that horsepower i'm on borrowed time with the stock motor, but i already have other plans... i may lower the boost for this season... just to buy me a little bit more time...

OK. guys i get it. Once I get my taxes. Ill be buying forged internals for a 306, and ill send my stock block off to be machined for 9:1 comp. and buy some afr 185cc heads or some cheaper heads if I can find some, & a twisted wedge upper/lower intake with a mild cam. This should do from what you guys are stressing instead of a stroker.

By "Twisted Wedge" I assume you mean a trickflow intake. Trackheat would be a great intake for that combo but you may wanna consider getting a lil more aggressive with the cam to make use of the heads and intake. Its not going to have much bottom end at all but it should scream up top. Make sure you get some heads with valvesprings that are gonna be able to rev. You'll want 6,500 to take FULL advantage of that package. I know you said you're going to put a blower on it....well, a centrifugal blower on THAT bottom end...it would SCREAM up top!!

 

[ICEMAN330824]

I have a stock block with stock internals... 302 ci, ported and polished stock GT40's stock ported Cobra upper and lower intake stock cobra cam... compression is stock maybe 9.0-9.5:1... your blower may not make the same horsepower as mine at the same psi, just because mine pushes more volume of air... PROCHARGER RULES ... :thumb: (as far as superchargers go anyways) I know that at that horsepower i'm on borrowed time with the stock motor, but i already have other plans... i may lower the boost for this season... just to buy me a little bit more time...

OK. guys i get it. Once I get my taxes. Ill be buying forged internals for a 306, and ill send my stock block off to be machined for 9:1 comp. and buy some afr 185cc heads or some cheaper heads if I can find some, & a twisted wedge upper/lower intake with a mild cam. This should do from what you guys are stressing instead of a stroker.

By "Twisted Wedge" I assume you mean a trickflow intake. Trackheat would be a great intake for that combo but you may wanna consider getting a lil more aggressive with the cam to make use of the heads and intake. Its not going to have much bottom end at all but it should scream up top. Make sure you get some heads with valvesprings that are gonna be able to rev. You'll want 6,500 to take FULL advantage of that package. I know you said you're going to put a blower on it....well, a centrifugal blower on THAT bottom end...it would SCREAM up top!!

OK COOL MAN. THANKS. DONT BE SURPRISED IF I PM YOU WITH THE SPECIFIC PARTS IM BUYING TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THEM.

 

[IceMan]

If you ahve any questions shoot a PM and i will be more than happy to help you...

 

[lietuvis91]

ok, decide what it is you want first... cuz this is why:

if all you'll want is no more than 400-450 whp than a 347 stroker will get you there with the right combo, I have seen 205 heads used w/ 347 to get there. A stock block will handle that just fine as long as you don't boost it. This power goal is absolutely reaistic all motor w/ a 347 and a good tune.
....there's really nothing you can throw at a stock block to make it split as long as you stay NA

check out www.outlaw-performance.com forums, there's a guy in gretna running low 11s w/ this combo all motor

if you want boost.... invest in a block!

 

[ICEMAN330824]

331

Putting a 331 in a stock block with a blower strapped on is DUMB. Unless you plan on staying ALL motor and absolutely zero power adder but want to push big pwer, then by all means do it. How do I know? B/c I have a Forged 331 in a stock 5.0 block....

So...what do I have.

-A topend capable of pushing close to 400rwhp with out any power adder (AFR185s, victor intake, custom cam)

-A Forged Steel Eagle Crank and Rods with Flattop forged pistons. Can handle WELL over 700+hp reliably.

-A Big fucking Nitrous kit capable of 300hp

ALL that is stuffed in a block that cries if it sees close to 500rwhp.

WHATS THE POINT OF SINKING ALL THAT MONEY INTO A STOCK BLOCK?! There ISN'T. Learn from my mistake. PLEASE. If you're going to do a power adder in a stock block, put it on a forged piston'd 306 and roll out. If you're going all motor then by all means, stroke it...if you want BOTH, pick up an upgraded block. You'll be MUCH happier in the long run

Ok man. I have a couple more questions for you. Ive been doing a little more research and asking alot of people questions so im going to shoot some at you as well. 1st let me ask you how much whp/wtrq are you putting down with your forged 331 stroker with afr 185cc heads and a custom cam? I see in your sig, you best et was 11.9 @ 117mph. And I see that you stated in the quote above you have a block capable of 400whp, so I guess this means your not at 400whp right? I checked out thie website called strokerkits.com...here's a link to there dyno sheet page of n/a strokers and blown strokers dyno numbers. Might I add the darn impressive.
crazy stroker kit dyno number on a 5.0 check them out. :thumb:

What Im thinking is with a 306 w/ forged internals with 185cc heads, trick flow upper/lower intake and a custom roller cam with a 10psi blower I could make the max 450whp mark... I think, im not sure how much power my blower will really give me at 10psi until I strap it on the motor. But Im guessing 10hp/trq per 1 psi so im thinking 100+hp/trq. I just dont want to under powermyself with chancing that a 306 will make enough power. So I have still been pondering stroking my 302 to a 331 forged internals with same HCI setup I stated, and if needed i could down size the 10psi pulley to my 5psi pulley if I made to much power when I get my cpu/car dyno tuned in Dallas,tx. This way I could turn down the power if I had to by throwing on the 5psi pulley. I just want to ASSURE myself that im going to make 450whp/450wrtrq no QUESTIONS!! Im not trying to offend your intelleginece by asking/ or questioning the 306 over the 331, but I just want to make sure I get the max out of the Block I have without blowing the motor and having to buy a $1800+ after market block! But I respect your opion thats why im asking you all these darn questions, lol. Thanks man for your understanding and patience with me. :banana:

 

[ryclef331]

When I first got my motor in the car and took it to the dyno...with out a chip and just fuel pressure and timing adjustments, we made 317hp and 377lbft of tq. this was with an upported lower performer intake (restrictive!). Numbers were still low...even for that. I suspected the cam. Well, after looking at the cam specs and the dyno sheets...it wasn't adding up. We found the car was going into valve float at 4,800rpm. Tore the valve train apart. The valvesprings had low...and I mean LOW seat pressure 70-80lbs closed....it should be 130-140 with the cam I'm running. Well, we redid the heads, and right now I'm swapping to a victor intake. This should REALLY wake the motor up. I just went to my local tuner the other night to pick up some parts. He dyno'd a fox with a 347 (not alot of cubic inch difference) with the same 185s, systemax intake, and a comp cams xe cam. UNTUNED FIRST PULL, 368hp to the wheels on motor with 350lbft tq. I didn't stick around for the final numbers but I'm sure they came up.

The combo you want to build on a 306 WILL be stout so long as the cam is right for it. There is absolutely no reason you can't make 330-340 rwhp on motor alone. Throw 10lbs of boost at it, it should get up to the levels you want....NO problem. Get a reputable blower (Novi2000, S-Trim, or ProCharger) for it that can support all you want and THEN some. And remember, if 10lbs doesn't get you there....you can up the boost but I doubt you'd need to. I know of guys with stock rods, crank, forged pistons, ARP hardware, H/C/I, and 13lbs of boost.....565hp on pump gas all day. Stock = borrowed time but IT CAN BE DONE. I can't tell you enough that if you're going to stroke and power add, GET A DIFFERENT BLOCK. You'll hate yourself for not doing it. 5lbs of boost on a blower that can support WAY more than that is a waste of money, in my book.

 

[ICEMAN330824]

When I first got my motor in the car and took it to the dyno...with out a chip and just fuel pressure and timing adjustments, we made 317hp and 377lbft of tq. this was with an upported lower performer intake (restrictive!). Numbers were still low...even for that. I suspected the cam. Well, after looking at the cam specs and the dyno sheets...it wasn't adding up. We found the car was going into valve float at 4,800rpm. Tore the valve train apart. The valvesprings had low...and I mean LOW seat pressure 70-80lbs closed....it should be 130-140 with the cam I'm running. Well, we redid the heads, and right now I'm swapping to a victor intake. This should REALLY wake the motor up. I just went to my local tuner the other night to pick up some parts. He dyno'd a fox with a 347 (not alot of cubic inch difference) with the same 185s, systemax intake, and a comp cams xe cam. UNTUNED FIRST PULL, 368hp to the wheels on motor with 350lbft tq. I didn't stick around for the final numbers but I'm sure they came up.

The combo you want to build on a 306 WILL be stout so long as the cam is right for it. There is absolutely no reason you can't make 330-340 rwhp on motor alone. Throw 10lbs of boost at it, it should get up to the levels you want....NO problem. Get a reputable blower (Novi2000, S-Trim, or ProCharger) for it that can support all you want and THEN some. And remember, if 10lbs doesn't get you there....you can up the boost but I doubt you'd need to. I know of guys with stock rods, crank, forged pistons, ARP hardware, H/C/I, and 13lbs of boost.....565hp on pump gas all day. Stock = borrowed time but IT CAN BE DONE. I can't tell you enough that if you're going to stroke and power add, GET A DIFFERENT BLOCK. You'll hate yourself for not doing it. 5lbs of boost on a blower that can support WAY more than that is a waste of money, in my book.

THANKS FOR THE INFO BRO!!! O0

 

[Stopsign32v]

Why go into the motor? Hell, just get some good heads, cam, and intake...slap the blower on the car and you should be an easy 400rwhp. The car stock has 9.0 compression. Why are we wasting money here? :lame:


Oh and BTW you don't want real low compression on a centri blower unless you plan on running massive boost!

 

[Stopsign32v]

I gotta ask...Why put a supercharger on it? If you are ONLY wanting 400rwhp I'd either go 302 nitrous or 347 in the stock block. Both of those combinations will make 400rwhp and will rip a 400rwhp centri blown car's ass a new one. :dunno:

 

[ryclef331]

LAME?

He wants to make 450rwhp RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY (consistent to me not having to fill up bottles so nitrous is out). Yeah a stock bottom end with a good tune COULD handle 400 BUT I wouldn't bet on it lasting all that long when you up it to 450hp. Slightest detonation on a stock hyperPATHETIC piston (also read as BRITTLE), bam....you're sending metal shavings through out the motor. WORST CASE SCENARIO, you wipe out your OIL FEED BLOWER (unless its a procharger), cam, heads probably, and block. Probably the only thing that would survive (again works case) is the intake.

SO b/c YOUR ass cheaped out on a set of pistons, you just trashed close to 4 grand worth or go-fast parts. Yeah...sounds like a bargain to me. I'm not denying it can't or hasn't been done....but alot have been blown the fuck up to. I'll pass.

 

[ICEMAN330824]

I gotta ask...Why put a supercharger on it? If you are ONLY wanting 400rwhp I'd either go 302 nitrous or 347 in the stock block. Both of those combinations will make 400rwhp and will rip a 400rwhp centri blown car's ass a new one. :dunno:

Ok man. I already bought the blower kit so im gonna use it plus i think it cool to own a blown mustang, lol. I dont want to use any nos for many reasons, mainly I want a continous power on the street, this is my daily driver. I want to get as close as possible to maxing out the stock motor without blowing it. So im shooting for 450rwhp/trq which would put the motor around 525hp/trq - 550hp/trq. Oh and why im rebuilding my motor is for several resons. Mainly this is my daily driver like I said, and the car has over 167k miles on it, so its time for more than just some nice heads, cam, & intake, with a blower on it. lol...Yea right, i wish. Mainly I want a stong stout rebuilt motor that I can trust to put some power to it with no high miles. Hope those answer your questions.

 

[ICEMAN330824]

LAME?

He wants to make 450rwhp RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY (consistent to me not having to fill up bottles so nitrous is out). Yeah a stock bottom end with a good tune COULD handle 400 BUT I wouldn't bet on it lasting all that long when you up it to 450hp. Slightest detonation on a stock hyperPATHETIC piston (also read as BRITTLE), bam....you're sending metal shavings through out the motor. WORST CASE SCENARIO, you wipe out your OIL FEED BLOWER (unless its a procharger), cam, heads probably, and block. Probably the only thing that would survive (again works case) is the intake.

SO b/c YOUR ass cheaped out on a set of pistons, you just trashed close to 4 grand worth or go-fast parts. Yeah...sounds like a bargain to me. I'm not denying it can't or hasn't been done....but alot have been blown the fuck up to. I'll pass.

Thanks man, I appreciate the support. :bunny3:

 

[Stopsign32v]

LAME?

Twas sarcasm, calm yourself.

He wants to make 450rwhp RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY

All motor is 2x's more reliable and just as consistent as a supercharged car in most cases. A supercharger puts alot of stress on the motor and snout of the crank all motor does not.

Yeah a stock bottom end with a good tune COULD handle 400 BUT I wouldn't bet on it lasting all that long when you up it to 450hp. Slightest detonation on a stock hyperPATHETIC piston (also read as BRITTLE), bam....you're sending metal shavings through out the motor. WORST CASE SCENARIO, you wipe out your OIL FEED BLOWER (unless its a procharger), cam, heads probably, and block. Probably the only thing that would survive (again works case) is the intake.

What are you talking about here? A supercharged car will go boom ALOT sooner than a N/A motor and a nitrous motor (given you don't spray the car alot). Detonation is detonation...You can just as easily get greedy with timing and BOOM. You can just as easily put on too small of a blower pulley and BOOM. But if you play it smart the stock pistons will last just as long as forged ones. My car made over 570rwhp on stock internals and only let go because of a rod, not a piston. Simply put, putting forged internals in a stock 5.0 block is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO b/c YOUR ass cheaped out on a set of pistons, you just trashed close to 4 grand worth or go-fast parts. Yeah...sounds like a bargain to me. I'm not denying it can't or hasn't been done....but alot have been blown the fuck up to. I'll pass.

Because there are alot of idiots out there that try to run 20 degrees timing on 93 octane. Put a 15psi pulley on a 24lb injected motor. Put a 150 shot on a motor with a 190lb pump. Hell worst case scenario is a asteroid falls out of the sky and crushes your mustang while you are sitting eating in Burger King. I'd rather just imagine our guy here has alittle bit of common sense so we can throw this "worst case scenario" out of the window and save him some money. You definately know your stuff, not denying that so don't take this the wrong way. I'm just one of those racers who like to get the most out of my money. :thumb:

 

[Stopsign32v]

Ok man. I already bought the blower kit so im gonna use it plus i think it cool to own a blown mustang, lol. I dont want to use any nos for many reasons, mainly I want a continous power on the street, this is my daily driver. I want to get as close as possible to maxing out the stock motor without blowing it. So im shooting for 450rwhp/trq which would put the motor around 525hp/trq - 550hp/trq. Oh and why im rebuilding my motor is for several resons. Mainly this is my daily driver like I said, and the car has over 167k miles on it, so its time for more than just some nice heads, cam, & intake, with a blower on it. lol...Yea right, i wish. Mainly I want a stong stout rebuilt motor that I can trust to put some power to it with no high miles. Hope those answer your questions.

Thats fine, I didn't know you already owned it. Sure put it on then. And it is cool to own a supercharged Mustang. I myself, think it is cooler to have an all motor street car that whoops up on HCI/supercharged cars. :dunno:

 

[Green 94 331]

you can easily make 400whp on a 306 with a conservative h/c/i combo and a blower making a conservative amount of boost. with the stock bottom end, i made 394hp 411lb/ft to the wheels reading 7psi on the boost gauge. the setup was:

stock 70k mile 302 bottom end, gt40x heads, gt40 tubular intake with a ported lower, trickflow stage 1 cam, and an s-trim with a loose belt. all the other supporting stuff was done, but those are the basics of the setup. the only reason the 331 is in there now is because the rings gave out on cylinders 5 and 6. it was not a piston/rod failure. with the correct tune, the car will give you many miles with or without a blower. the point of my post is with a blower to make the numbers you are looking for, big cubes arent necessary.

 

[ICEMAN330824]

you can easily make 400whp on a 306 with a conservative h/c/i combo and a blower making a conservative amount of boost. with the stock bottom end, i made 394hp 411lb/ft to the wheels reading 7psi on the boost gauge. the setup was:

stock 70k mile 302 bottom end, gt40x heads, gt40 tubular intake with a ported lower, trickflow stage 1 cam, and an s-trim with a loose belt. all the other supporting stuff was done, but those are the basics of the setup. the only reason the 331 is in there now is because the rings gave out on cylinders 5 and 6. it was not a piston/rod failure. with the correct tune, the car will give you many miles with or without a blower. the point of my post is with a blower to make the numbers you are looking for, big cubes arent necessary.

I catch your drift thanks.

 

[ryclef331]

LAME?

Twas sarcasm, calm yourself.

He wants to make 450rwhp RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY

All motor is 2x's more reliable and just as consistent as a supercharged car in most cases. A supercharger puts alot of stress on the motor and snout of the crank all motor does not.

Yeah a stock bottom end with a good tune COULD handle 400 BUT I wouldn't bet on it lasting all that long when you up it to 450hp. Slightest detonation on a stock hyperPATHETIC piston (also read as BRITTLE), bam....you're sending metal shavings through out the motor. WORST CASE SCENARIO, you wipe out your OIL FEED BLOWER (unless its a procharger), cam, heads probably, and block. Probably the only thing that would survive (again works case) is the intake.

What are you talking about here? A supercharged car will go boom ALOT sooner than a N/A motor and a nitrous motor (given you don't spray the car alot). Detonation is detonation...You can just as easily get greedy with timing and BOOM. You can just as easily put on too small of a blower pulley and BOOM. But if you play it smart the stock pistons will last just as long as forged ones. My car made over 570rwhp on stock internals and only let go because of a rod, not a piston. Simply put, putting forged internals in a stock 5.0 block is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO b/c YOUR ass cheaped out on a set of pistons, you just trashed close to 4 grand worth or go-fast parts. Yeah...sounds like a bargain to me. I'm not denying it can't or hasn't been done....but alot have been blown the fuck up to. I'll pass.

Because there are alot of idiots out there that try to run 20 degrees timing on 93 octane. Put a 15psi pulley on a 24lb injected motor. Put a 150 shot on a motor with a 190lb pump. Hell worst case scenario is a asteroid falls out of the sky and crushes your mustang while you are sitting eating in Burger King. I'd rather just imagine our guy here has alittle bit of common sense so we can throw this "worst case scenario" out of the window and save him some money. You definately know your stuff, not denying that so don't take this the wrong way. I'm just one of those racers who like to get the most out of my money. :thumb:

I'm not saying put ALL forged internals in there. Just some pistons and rods worth a shit. He knows the power limits of a stock block. A blower spinning on a H/C/I 306 isn't going to have to throw out much boost to come close to that limit so I think the stress on the crank shaft is a null and void at that low of a boost number...provided you don't CRANK the FUCK out of the tension setup. I don't see him getting greedy with the power numbers. We both know what will work but I think we just have different ways we'd go about it. I'd spend a couple more bucks for the added insurance.

 

[ICEMAN330824]

LAME?

Twas sarcasm, calm yourself.

He wants to make 450rwhp RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY

All motor is 2x's more reliable and just as consistent as a supercharged car in most cases. A supercharger puts alot of stress on the motor and snout of the crank all motor does not.

Yeah a stock bottom end with a good tune COULD handle 400 BUT I wouldn't bet on it lasting all that long when you up it to 450hp. Slightest detonation on a stock hyperPATHETIC piston (also read as BRITTLE), bam....you're sending metal shavings through out the motor. WORST CASE SCENARIO, you wipe out your OIL FEED BLOWER (unless its a procharger), cam, heads probably, and block. Probably the only thing that would survive (again works case) is the intake.

What are you talking about here? A supercharged car will go boom ALOT sooner than a N/A motor and a nitrous motor (given you don't spray the car alot). Detonation is detonation...You can just as easily get greedy with timing and BOOM. You can just as easily put on too small of a blower pulley and BOOM. But if you play it smart the stock pistons will last just as long as forged ones. My car made over 570rwhp on stock internals and only let go because of a rod, not a piston. Simply put, putting forged internals in a stock 5.0 block is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO b/c YOUR ass cheaped out on a set of pistons, you just trashed close to 4 grand worth or go-fast parts. Yeah...sounds like a bargain to me. I'm not denying it can't or hasn't been done....but alot have been blown the fuck up to. I'll pass.

Because there are alot of idiots out there that try to run 20 degrees timing on 93 octane. Put a 15psi pulley on a 24lb injected motor. Put a 150 shot on a motor with a 190lb pump. Hell worst case scenario is a asteroid falls out of the sky and crushes your mustang while you are sitting eating in Burger King. I'd rather just imagine our guy here has alittle bit of common sense so we can throw this "worst case scenario" out of the window and save him some money. You definately know your stuff, not denying that so don't take this the wrong way. I'm just one of those racers who like to get the most out of my money. :thumb:

I'm not saying put ALL forged internals in there. Just some pistons and rods worth a shit. He knows the power limits of a stock block. A blower spinning on a H/C/I 306 isn't going to have to throw out much boost to come close to that limit so I think the stress on the crank shaft is a null and void at that low of a boost number...provided you don't CRANK the FUCK out of the tension setup. I don't see him getting greedy with the power numbers. We both know what will work but I think we just have different ways we'd go about it. I'd spend a couple more bucks for the added insurance.

Which is why im buying forged internals. Thanks RYCLEF331 :banana:

 

[Stopsign32v]

I'm not saying put ALL forged internals in there. Just some pistons and rods worth a shit. He knows the power limits of a stock block. A blower spinning on a H/C/I 306 isn't going to have to throw out much boost to come close to that limit so I think the stress on the crank shaft is a null and void at that low of a boost number...provided you don't CRANK the FUCK out of the tension setup. I don't see him getting greedy with the power numbers. We both know what will work but I think we just have different ways we'd go about it. I'd spend a couple more bucks for the added insurance.

I don't know anyone who doesn't get greedy with power numbers. Obviously he is now and I doubt it will take long for him to get used to 450rwhp. But I guess he will live and learn. :ass3: If he is going to change the pistons and he only wants 450rwhp I'd DEFINATELY go with high compression pistons. 10.1 sounds good to me with a blower.


Btw what is your combo? I've always liked your orange car and your time slip isn't bad either. What are you running? Looks sweet