Racing Shark Racing Car

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wmfateam

wmfateam

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The field from Sunday's race.
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wmfateam

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Haven't touched the car but I did get a black Friday deal or two.
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ReplicaR

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Wonder on what your impression is with that rack. I remember reading some unfavorable reviews on c-c.com forums, most people said that with "quick" ratio (which is standard for all power steering mustangs) is hard to keep up without the assist in fast corners, or if the car is trying to get away from you. And the "standard" ratio is slow as hell, and requires a lot of steering input. Part of the reason why I went with 03 Cobra rack instead.
 
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wmfateam

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Wonder on what your impression is with that rack. I remember reading some unfavorable reviews on c-c.com forums, most people said that with "quick" ratio (which is standard for all power steering mustangs) is hard to keep up without the assist in fast corners, or if the car is trying to get away from you. And the "standard" ratio is slow as hell, and requires a lot of steering input. Part of the reason why I went with 03 Cobra rack instead.
As most people also have unfavorable reviews to staying four link and just adding all spherical bushings, I take most things with a grain of salt. With the Coyote swap it will be manual brakes and steering no matter what. I have had enough of the inconsistent hydroboost. Unfortunately I am still in the beta phase as I have not actually begun the swap yet. I will have as much info in a detailed write up as possible once 2017 practice/testing has completed. The swap has already exceeded my 2016 budget and I've had to corner work and train to become an instructor to pay for track time.
 

ReplicaR

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As most people also have unfavorable reviews to staying four link and just adding all spherical bushings, I take most things with a grain of salt.

Cool, looking to hear what you have to say about it. Still disagree that your 4 link has more grip than a torque arm. Perhaps one day we'll be on the same course together...
 
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wmfateam

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Cool, looking to hear what you have to say about it. Still disagree that your 4 link has more grip than a torque arm. Perhaps one day we'll be on the same course together...
I do get the pleasure of running against a 97 Cobra with the full Maximum catalog on it. I don't doubt the grip, but I do doubt the ability to rotate as much as my car does. But then again, we have started to change rear spring rates in his car. And if I can ever get it running, I did purchase a 95 track car that has a pan hard bar, no torque arm, but I am anxious to get a feel for it.

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ReplicaR

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I do get the pleasure of running against a 97 Cobra with the full Maximum catalog on it. I don't doubt the grip, but I do doubt the ability to rotate as much as my car does. But then again, we have started to change rear spring rates in his car. And if I can ever get it running, I did purchase a 95 track car that has a pan hard bar, no torque arm, but I am anxious to get a feel for it.

Here is my take on this. After upgrading the rear end to torque arm, I’ve been battling corner exit understeer for years. No matter what I was doing with setup, it would always wash out on the corner exit. This is how much more traction the torque arm has, that it exposes everything else that’s weak about the setup. Even going to MM K-member, I could not get rid of that corner exit understeer. At the end of the day, the part that resolved the understeer completely was the differential. Going from T-Lok with FRPP clutches to Torsen T2R allowed me to have my cake and eat it too. T-Lok would lock up most of the time, and torque arm provided so much traction, that it caused the front to wash out. Now I’ve got a lot of front end grip, pretty good rear traction, and ability to rotate like you would not believe. Your rod end 4 link is creating that condition artificially, by causing one tire to lift up under hard cornering. Sure it gives you an ability to rotate, but it’s doing so by taking the traction away. If you were to use torque arm with a good differential, you wouldn’t need to do this. You would have the axle articulation, you would be able to put the power down, and a good differential would not turn all that rear traction into understeer. Are you still using T-Lok still?
 
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wmfateam

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Here is my take on this. After upgrading the rear end to torque arm, I’ve been battling corner exit understeer for years. No matter what I was doing with setup, it would always wash out on the corner exit. This is how much more traction the torque arm has, that it exposes everything else that’s weak about the setup. Even going to MM K-member, I could not get rid of that corner exit understeer. At the end of the day, the part that resolved the understeer completely was the differential. Going from T-Lok with FRPP clutches to Torsen T2R allowed me to have my cake and eat it too. T-Lok would lock up most of the time, and torque arm provided so much traction, that it caused the front to wash out. Now I’ve got a lot of front end grip, pretty good rear traction, and ability to rotate like you would not believe. Your rod end 4 link is creating that condition artificially, by causing one tire to lift up under hard cornering. Sure it gives you an ability to rotate, but it’s doing so by taking the traction away. If you were to use torque arm with a good differential, you wouldn’t need to do this. You would have the axle articulation, you would be able to put the power down, and a good differential would not turn all that rear traction into understeer. Are you still using T-Lok still?

I am in the middle of "switching" cars as I have begun to remove brakes, shocks, control arms, etc off of my 96 Cobra in preparation for the Coyote swap. But honestly I have no idea what Diff has been in the car. The previous owner upgraded to 31 spline axles and did not tell me what diff was in the car. It might just be the T-Lok with carbon clutches. He was turning it into a drag car so I assume it is something basic. My T2R is sitting in my parts pile as I try and find a floating rear axle set up. I almost pulled the trigger on a Moser M88 but my Boss is not the biggest fan of Moser. So he has told me to wait and ask his buddy Bart from Bart Works to see if he has anything in mind. The end goal for my car, 2-3 years away, will to have a Double A-Arm front end and Lotus Link in the rear with a floating axle. My boss is not the biggest fan of torque arms and has tried to keep me from getting one.
 

ReplicaR

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I'm not really advocating one way or another, but one thing that I would want to see gone is the 4 link. Whatever you use to replace it with is completely up to you. I like torque arm for almost everything except for all the unsprung weight it adds. The rear axle is already very heavy on it's own, and adding half the weight of torque arm does not help, when you're trying to make a responsive and composed chassis.
 

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I'm not really advocating one way or another, but one thing that I would want to see gone is the 4 link. Whatever you use to replace it with is completely up to you. I like torque arm for almost everything except for all the unsprung weight it adds. The rear axle is already very heavy on it's own, and adding half the weight of torque arm does not help, when you're trying to make a responsive and composed chassis.


So true, I just put mine in and man that sucker is heavy
 

RichV

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You guys run a bit more HP than I do, but I believe you can learn a lot about suspensions without having a HP bailout.

So in CMC we are not allowed to run a T/A and cannot drop weight below 3150 for the Mustangs. I need to experiment a little with rear spring rates, my PHB rear end had stock UCA with harder bushings, but still rubber. I put in MM 415# rear spring to correct the roll center after reading some tech. Anyways, I think I misread it and the higher rates for only T/A and PHB combo. So I'm getting a little bounce in some mid-corners but I'm not sure if it's because of the rear rates, or my front setup. I noticed it after I put in the Super Race springs with MM dampners.

But CMC cars are a mix of PHB cars and non PHB with stock 4 link. It seems to be hit/miss with driver. AI mustangs all have the T/A, obviously higher HP, more modifications allowed. However on some tracks CMC cars are just as fast as AI. So IMO the T/A works better on higher HP cars but driver style is a big debate because some prefer one to the other just by personal preference. Putting 2 cars and 2 drivers on a track doesn't necessarily prove 1 car is better than another.
 
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So months later, I now have a complete IRS and a semi complete IRS. I have decided one will go in the daily and the other into the Race car. I am waiting on bushings, exhaust and brake lines before I start the swap. I am also on the fence of sending my IRS cradle to Kenny Brown for their geometry rework and hard mount or going DVM IRS Uprights. All the money I am thinking about spending and still have not actually started the motor swap. And now the daily has blown at least one head gasket so that needs attention as well. Oh well, Mustang life. The daily IRS will be getting the Maximum Motorsports treatment and the Race car will get the FTBR treatment.
 
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Finally bought the BBK long tubes and delrin front control arms. About to buy the 94-95 specific K-Member after being told by MM that the 96-04 will not fit (supposedly there is fabrication needed).,

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