Slapping on AFR 185 heads?

[LaserRed95GT]

I was looking at picking up a set of AFR heads and throwing them on and calling it a day or going gt40heads with gt40 intake.

My question is can I just throw AFR heads on no problem? I'm talking stock cam, maybe putting on a gt40 intake but otherwise stock intake manifold.
Part of this question is gains and benefits, I've always understood that a great set of heads on the 302 goes a long way and that the gt40 heads just leave you wanting for more.

My desired gains on my FULLY STOCK 302 is 300+rwhp sooo would these heads achieve such desired goals? I believe I came across an article where they put a great set of AFR heads and mild other work and ended with 400+hp at the flywheel.
A better statement for my goals is to say I want to break into low 13s preferably high 12s.

Mods to follow this will be 4.10 gears (im in an auto), probably a custom grind cam from ed curtis (he's still active right?), and a proper intake or a cheap used powerdyne or votec supercharger to get that desired air flow and really use those heads (including injectors and fuel pump etc etc.).

let me know your thoughts and opinions on my direction.

 

[ttocs]

You can probably count on needed a tune at a minimum but if I were that deep and putting big heads on I would do a cam as well.

 

[whiplash473]

Which AFR heads? The typical set will work just fine with a stock engine (mechanically, you'll want a tune), but if someone has thrown different length pushrods or rocker arms in them then you're gonna need to check your clearances.


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[RichV]

Grab some bolt-ons, slap on those heads, throw on a twin turbo, and toss in a nitrous kit while you're at it.

I'll take a guess and say you have little to no mods?

Heads and intake make all the difference on a SBF. That's where you should start, go with your budget. A 300hp 302 is not fully stock as you want, so not sure what you're saying there.

 

[LaserRed95GT]

You can probably count on needed a tune at a minimum but if I were that deep and putting big heads on I would do a cam as well.

yeaaaaah might as whale. Lol

Which AFR heads? The typical set will work just fine with a stock engine (mechanically, you'll want a tune), but if someone has thrown different length pushrods or rocker arms in them then you're gonna need to check your clearances.


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the 165s? yeah most people go with those, I wish 205s were viable but I'll probably stick with the 165s cause of clearance issues with the pistons since I really don't feel like going that far into the motor this early on. I'll probably buy rocker arms and pushrods just as a safe measure, I mean, the heads would already be costing me a ton, I rather do it right the first time.
Edit: I was also more curious about the possibility of the 185s. versus the 165s (yah know, don't wanna have to change the heads in the future).


I just want to mention a small problem with my build, I have a shitty ass AODE with 66k miles on it (roughly), I've broken one before, and I'm sure I could break another. So I'm kind of stuck in limbo about not creating toooo much power but reach my goal 1/4 mile times. Part of the reason I'm not set on upgrading too much performance wise this early on (might refocus to suspension and slicks after I get the heads, tune, etc etc set).

 

[OnyxCobra]

Everything I've ever read said you have to flycut the pistons to run the 185s. With the stock cam though it might be okay but you'd definitely want to clay the pistons to find out. I ultimately went with the 165s because of it but had i known how or had easy access to the flycutting I would have gone with the 185s.

 

[LaserRed95GT]

Grab some bolt-ons, slap on those heads, throw on a twin turbo, and toss in a nitrous kit while you're at it.

I'll take a guess and say you have little to no mods?

Heads and intake make all the difference on a SBF. That's where you should start, go with your budget. A 300hp 302 is not fully stock as you want, so not sure what you're saying there.

Dude. Did you read my post or just the title and every other word?
PREETTTTYYY sure I stated I have a fully stock 302. If you're thinking "oh some nub who wants to get his mods on and doesn't know a thing" you're pretty far off the ball and the park. I think you're playing hockey? Anyways.

No need to guess that I have 'no mods' being I already told you I didn't. It's stupid to take a worn out sn95 and throw mods on it, I've done my own prep work in preparing the car to where I want it to be before I started modding.
I'll elaborate what I have done thus far to my car
"new" used 302 with about 120k miles on it (blew the last one).
"new" used AODE w/stock converter with 66k miles on it (blew the last one).
Redid the brakes all around.
Full basic tune up, spark plugs, wires, coil, air filter, battery etc.
Didn't want a pos interior in a car with thrown together mods, so cleaned that shit right up.
New radiator, cleaned lines and shit, new hoses, new fan controller to keep that hoe nice and coo.
Replaced the starter and the entire negative and positive battery cables cause that shit was corroded to kingdom cum. Cum. cummings are cool.

So yeah, it is stock.

As far as your whole "so not sure what you're saying here" or whatever you were coughing up but I'm pretty sure I never said stock 300hp engine. Because you're right, that makes 0 ****ing sense. How the hell would one obtain 300 horsies when they didn't do shit to a stock power plant that puts out at most 215 from factory? Like, how the hell did you read my post and come to the conclusion that that is what I was trying to say?

I'll elaborate on this for you as well since you apparently need it while everyone else understood me; a stock bottom end, untouched, stock crankshaft, rods, pistons, rings, bearings; a stock intake (because who really needs to go aftermarket if you're getting AFRs unless you're trying to extract as much as possible on the top end from that shit, plus that shit is easy as tits to replace down the road ((I.E. AFTER replacing the heads with AFR))); I was thinking stock cam but Ttoc, my *****h was like, put that shit in, ed curtis is a bad ass, might as well do it while you there son (and I agree with him if you didn't grasp that); and shit *****h was that clear enough for you by what I meant by 'stock.'
Cam, heads, EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE SAME DOWN TO THE DAMN INJECTORS.
Now what if you were thinking "woah woah woah! your stock injectors won't be good enough" or some shit like that. Then say that and actually be useful instead of stating the known.


Or maybe I'll just be a **** boy and pretend I have 8 grand for a twin turbo set up, the 800 dollars on nos (which btw only fags use nos(ask my friend the movie actor from that one movie with that bad ass lincoln continental BBF), and then the drop in the bucket 1250 dollar heads I want.
Satisfied? Do you feel big now? Thank you for making my brain hurt and swell.

Oh and Edit: I'm not after 300 horsies, like that's a lame goal, fags make power goals and realistically go for it. I could have 500 and run a 13 second quarter mile, then what's the ****ing point? *****h I'm trying to go fast here.
If you want the whole truth after I do the heads I was going to focus on suspension, 4.10s, get rid of some of that body roll, stiffen the chasis and get rid of the annoying bucking it does where it lifts the front and loses traction like right now, 4.10s as I mentioned. By the time I'm done modding I just want to reach a reserved 11.5-11.99 second car. I reach the goal, and I don't need to do shit else to my car but a bad ass radio system so all the *****es be on my dick.

Everything I've ever read said you have to flycut the pistons to run the 185s. With the stock cam though it might be okay but you'd definitely want to clay the pistons to find out. I ultimately went with the 165s because of it but had i known how or had easy access to the flycutting I would have gone with the 185s.

This was extremely informative, thanks dude! I mightttt just stick with the 165s since I can still reach my goals, but we'll see here in a few months.

 

[g36 monkey]

Take a chill pill man.

Rich just gets bothered when people use words like "slap this on" and so on and so forth, because it's a lot more in depth than that. There's no point in changing your heads and not doing the intakes. You will starve the heads of the air they should be getting, essentially negating a lot of the gain.

Per the stock 300 horse thing, you said it. Nobody knows what your definition of stock is. Mine is totally untouched, so I was trying to figure out what you meant by that as well. But I see, you mean a stock short block (sans the cam) which is h/c/I away.

Getting into the low 13's and such is really all suspension, tires and driver once you hit that power level. Hell, some foxes hit the 10's around 380 horse (proper setup)

 

[LaserRed95GT]

Take a chill pill man.

Rich just gets bothered when people use words like "slap this on" and so on and so forth, because it's a lot more in depth than that. There's no point in changing your heads and not doing the intakes. You will starve the heads of the air they should be getting, essentially negating a lot of the gain.

Per the stock 300 horse thing, you said it. Nobody knows what your definition of stock is. Mine is totally untouched, so I was trying to figure out what you meant by that as well. But I see, you mean a stock short block (sans the cam) which is h/c/I away.

Getting into the low 13's and such is really all suspension, tires and driver once you hit that power level. Hell, some foxes hit the 10's around 380 horse (proper setup)

Lol that is me being chill.

I used the phrase "slap on" very deliberately because essentially that is what I aim to do. I think most people consider needing new oil, top end gasket kit, head bolts, lube, tune (which I didn't necessarily mind people mentioning that aspect) and things alike a given since the question is more oriented about using said heads to achieve or get close to both rwhp goal and speed goal (more so on the speed side which I mentioned previously).

"My desired gains on my FULLY STOCK 302 is 300+rwhp" that is what I said. The statement clearly says I have a desire to gain horsepower (check!), 300 horsepower would certainly be necessary for my goal of speed (check!), and it is stating that my motor is currently fully stock(check!). I don't really know how you guys are reading that? The statement essentially says that my motor is currently stock but with mods (i.e. heads and cam) 300. that's me stating the same thing 3 different ways.

What was read and how I would've typed it if this is what I meant "my FULLY STOCK 302 makes 300+rwhp " at which point I'm at a loss of how to even continue a statement as bogus as that? See how one is said to be currently making 300hp while 'fully stock' and the other is a goal and a statement of current standing? I shouldn't even have to go this far into depth about sentence structure guises...

Yeah 13s I don't imagine too hard to get into, not much I can do as far as driver mod in an auto.

Edit: forgot to address this part of your post. as far as intake I really don't mind coming back and redoing it. The intake I actually want is more than the heads, I figure I might just slap on some cheap-o gt40 intake and call it a day. If I hunger for more or fall just short of my goal THEN i'll think about upgrading the intake further. Do you get what I mean? I'm not trying to extract the most power I can, I'm trying to reach a goal. I can't express that enough. I'm also not huge on having to buy things such as an intake 3 or 4 or 5 times.

 

[ttocs]

ok then take two chill pills? I am not sure if I pissed you off saying to do a cam since my name was in the rant but all I am sayin is while you are down that far it will save time and money to do it right and do it once. I honestly waited 8 months after getting my heads so I could get a cam and have the intake ready for it all. You will have to take the heads off again to do the cam as well as would probably need another tune so besides the $$$ the tune will cost what is your time worth to do it 2x?

 

[blackhorse]

Leave the stock cam (install 1.7 rockers) and put big large heads and intake (AFR 185 or 205) , like the Chevy LS motors . It's the modern approach of big heads with small duration camshafts . That with 3.55 or 3.73 gears (I saw that your car is automatic , so the 3.73 or 4.10 are better choices) . Great driveability and pleasure in street . Later you can Always go with boost ...

Here some stock cams specs. from LS motors (they use large heads and intake) :

(duration at 0.50" , lift , lobe separation)

-L31 vortec - 202°/207°, .410"/.424", 115 lsa
-LS1 (98-00)- 202°/210°, .496"/.496", 116 lsa
-LS1 (01-02)- 198°/197°, .478"/.478', 115 lsa
-LS2 corvette- 204°/211°, .520"/.520", 116 lsa
-LS3 camaro SS - 204°/211° , .551"/0.522", 115 lsa.

Stock 94/95 :

- 214°/210° , .444"/.444" , 115 lsa.

- With 1.7 rockers : lift - .471"/.471" .

 

[95opal]

The simple answer to your question is no. You have to notch your pistons to run the 185s. To hit your goal a set of 165s or some tfs 170s with an aggressive cam and a tfs track heat or holley systemax will meet or exceed your goals no problem. As far as the gt40p's go I wouldn't waist a nickel on them as there not that great to begin with. Typically see around 260-280hp out of them.

 

[RichV]

Dude. Did you read my post or just the title and every other word?
PREETTTTYYY sure I stated I have a fully stock 302. If you're thinking "oh some nub who wants to get his mods on and doesn't know a thing" you're pretty far off the ball and the park. I think you're playing hockey? Anyways.

No need to guess that I have 'no mods' being I already told you I didn't. It's stupid to take a worn out sn95 and throw mods on it, I've done my own prep work in preparing the car to where I want it to be before I started modding.
I'll elaborate what I have done thus far to my car
"new" used 302 with about 120k miles on it (blew the last one).
"new" used AODE w/stock converter with 66k miles on it (blew the last one).
Redid the brakes all around.
Full basic tune up, spark plugs, wires, coil, air filter, battery etc.
Didn't want a pos interior in a car with thrown together mods, so cleaned that shit right up.
New radiator, cleaned lines and shit, new hoses, new fan controller to keep that hoe nice and coo.
Replaced the starter and the entire negative and positive battery cables cause that shit was corroded to kingdom cum. Cum. cummings are cool.

So yeah, it is stock.

As far as your whole "so not sure what you're saying here" or whatever you were coughing up but I'm pretty sure I never said stock 300hp engine. Because you're right, that makes 0 ****ing sense. How the hell would one obtain 300 horsies when they didn't do shit to a stock power plant that puts out at most 215 from factory? Like, how the hell did you read my post and come to the conclusion that that is what I was trying to say?

I'll elaborate on this for you as well since you apparently need it while everyone else understood me; a stock bottom end, untouched, stock crankshaft, rods, pistons, rings, bearings; a stock intake (because who really needs to go aftermarket if you're getting AFRs unless you're trying to extract as much as possible on the top end from that shit, plus that shit is easy as tits to replace down the road ((I.E. AFTER replacing the heads with AFR))); I was thinking stock cam but Ttoc, my *****h was like, put that shit in, ed curtis is a bad ass, might as well do it while you there son (and I agree with him if you didn't grasp that); and shit *****h was that clear enough for you by what I meant by 'stock.'
Cam, heads, EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE SAME DOWN TO THE DAMN INJECTORS.
Now what if you were thinking "woah woah woah! your stock injectors won't be good enough" or some shit like that. Then say that and actually be useful instead of stating the known.


Or maybe I'll just be a **** boy and pretend I have 8 grand for a twin turbo set up, the 800 dollars on nos (which btw only fags use nos(ask my friend the movie actor from that one movie with that bad ass lincoln continental BBF), and then the drop in the bucket 1250 dollar heads I want.
Satisfied? Do you feel big now? Thank you for making my brain hurt and swell.

Oh and Edit: I'm not after 300 horsies, like that's a lame goal, fags make power goals and realistically go for it. I could have 500 and run a 13 second quarter mile, then what's the ****ing point? *****h I'm trying to go fast here.
If you want the whole truth after I do the heads I was going to focus on suspension, 4.10s, get rid of some of that body roll, stiffen the chasis and get rid of the annoying bucking it does where it lifts the front and loses traction like right now, 4.10s as I mentioned. By the time I'm done modding I just want to reach a reserved 11.5-11.99 second car. I reach the goal, and I don't need to do shit else to my car but a bad ass radio system so all the *****es be on my dick.

I'm not even gonna bother breaking this all down, lol. I obviously hit a nerve, and it was dead on.

There's more to modding than slapping and throwing shit on. When you say this = 'I have no clue or experience what it takes to do this'. g36 got exactly what I'm saying.

Just do it right, do it once. Someone in another thread said everyone always has $ to do it right the second time, I try and not be that guy. Have learned much from my early days.

 

[OnyxCobra]

in the spirit of things I'll say that my AFR 165 experience was that they were "slap on" capable lol. Unless you're running a pretty good size cam they bolt on like a stock head. my setup even took stock length pushrods (you should check length) and my stock pedestal rockers (stud mount heads will require new rockers). I'd buy AFR again.

 

[LaserRed95GT]

in the spirit of things I'll say that my AFR 165 experience was that they were "slap on" capable lol. Unless you're running a pretty good size cam they bolt on like a stock head. my setup even took stock length pushrods (you should check length) and my stock pedestal rockers (stud mount heads will require new rockers). I'd buy AFR again.

You sir, are why I'm glad I posted. Basically what I wanted to hear. I guess I can just slap it on, huh, guys?

I'm not even gonna bother breaking this all down, lol. I obviously hit a nerve, and it was dead on.

There's more to modding than slapping and throwing shit on. When you say this = 'I have no clue or experience what it takes to do this'. g36 got exactly what I'm saying.

Just do it right, do it once. Someone in another thread said everyone always has $ to do it right the second time, I try and not be that guy. Have learned much from my early days.

Lol, no nerves hit, but I'm sure you see that some of what you thought I said was a clear misunderstanding. Being that I've changed heads before w/aftermarket ones and gotten it tuned as a "slap on mod" I would say I've done it before. sooooo not too sure where you're getting that thought from? Now maybe if I were still 16 and just posting this thread, I would admit "i'm an idiot who knows nothing" but being that it's been 4 years of working on cars coming 5, I think I have a pretty good idea what I'm doing. Especially if i'm ripping heads off, 16 year old me wouldn't dare do projects like that.

The only reason why I don't care if I have to go back and redo things a second time is because a 'proper' build or what I actually want is a 351 stroker aftermarket block all from scratch. Now that's like 20 grand on a good day, and I don't mind waiting the decade it's going to take to build. That's life.


slap slap slap slap slap slap slap slap.

 

[OnyxCobra]

I'm always glad to help but these other guys are right. If you are going to run the stock intake the heads are a total waste and that's the truth. Before my KB I ran my stock Cobra intake and i'm sure that was even bottle necking them, and that intake is way ahead of the stock one. Unfortunately I never got any dyno numbers with my n/a setup so I can't share those.

These guys aren't trying to rain on your parade, they're just trying to save you the time and money. Doing just heads on a stock 5.0 adds no benefit. If you want to keep the stock cam that's fine, i hear it can make great power, but at least throw a matching intake on. Then get a tune and you will be much happier with the results.

 

[Addermk2]

keep the engine stock
add turbo kit
...
profit

 

[g36 monkey]

You're getting help from some of the most brilliant people on the forum, especially when it comes to the 5.0, nobody is trying to attack you. No need to beat your chest though man.

Interestingly enough, Rich V saying "slap this on" I would believe. The man pulls motors in like 16 minutes after oil pump failures on track. He knows what he's talking about, take some time to appreciate that.

And I know what you're saying makes perfect sense to you, but the wording is easily misconstrued. And please, don't try to lecture me on sentence structure.

PS, Adder really did just say the cheapest way to make power, boost at a safe level.

 

[LaserRed95GT]

I'm always glad to help but these other guys are right. If you are going to run the stock intake the heads are a total waste and that's the truth. Before my KB I ran my stock Cobra intake and i'm sure that was even bottle necking them, and that intake is way ahead of the stock one. Unfortunately I never got any dyno numbers with my n/a setup so I can't share those.

These guys aren't trying to rain on your parade, they're just trying to save you the time and money. Doing just heads on a stock 5.0 adds no benefit. If you want to keep the stock cam that's fine, i hear it can make great power, but at least throw a matching intake on. Then get a tune and you will be much happier with the results.

I'm not really saying I would just leave the intake, after heads the longest I would keep the stocker (because it's a pos by any standard, more lowly than a stock foxbody I believe?) but I would swap it say like 6 months down the road if not sooner. *shrugs*
An intake swap takes what? 2 hours? If that. for me atleast. Lol.
I can only see the detraction being that I would have to retune. Which sure, a bit of money loss or power loss by skipping the retune but that's really not 'that' bad (in my eyes).

keep the engine stock
add turbo kit
...
profit

I've considered this route and all, and my power goals could even be met with a decent supercharger (same price as the heads). But then my concern is more about making the assembled turbo reliable and consistent. I gguuessssss I'll look into it before I go and buy the heads.

You're getting help from some of the most brilliant people on the forum, especially when it comes to the 5.0, nobody is trying to attack you. No need to beat your chest though man.

Interestingly enough, Rich V saying "slap this on" I would believe. The man pulls motors in like 16 minutes after oil pump failures on track. He knows what he's talking about, take some time to appreciate that.

And I know what you're saying makes perfect sense to you, but the wording is easily misconstrued. And please, don't try to lecture me on sentence structure.

PS, Adder really did just say the cheapest way to make power, boost at a safe level.

mmmm I don't think you get as I stated that I'm not 'beating my chest' that's just how I reply, talk, whateevverr.

yeah, that's great he can do that, I sure couldn't do that but I fail to see its relevance, as to any of this bickering, honestly. It's all extremely irrelevant and off topic and that's why I was "beating my chest" as you say? Just detracting from what could've been a way more informative, useful, interesting, or what have you, thread.

I shouldn't have to 'lecture' anyone on sentence structure, we're all adults for the most part. Sure, it could be easily misconstrued, that's fine, but jokes like "twin turbo" "nos" or whatever are just pointless. Why would I be inclined to listen to someone who belittled my post, insinuated that I lack knowledge in whatever area, and then stated 'put heads on it, and an intake.' Well we're talking about putting heads on it, so that was essentially a given. Now when he was like "yo, put an intake on that shit too" well that's something that hadn't been mentioned, and sure, that's usable solid advice. The rest of the post is just nonsense. Opinions of people and skill level aside, that's the truth.

I don't doubt that he has some great knowledge under his cap, as do many of the active posters here, but really? Would you listen to someone who comes on your thread with that BS? I'm highly doubtful you or anyone would. I nearly didn't even acknowledge his post but instead decided I'll just beat it into the ground about it's lack of subsistence.
So okay, I won't 'lecture' you on sentence structure since that seemed to get under your skin nice, similar to 'striking a nerve.'

and *noted about the boosting (see how that is actual usable advice? unless you wanna start talking about twin turbos and nos and go into 100lbs of boost and stroking each other). So I'm down to leave the hostility (my own as you both seem to insist), stupid suggestions, and people's skill level mentions behind after this post and get back to talking about heads, cams, intakes, reliably turboing, or even suspension if it's relevant if you are.



Sorry for the extremely lengthy posts errybody.

Edit: ayeeee 200 post count. I'm a 'senior member' now! check that shit out.

 

[Addermk2]

Turbo reliability comes down to part quality and installation skill. It takes more than just "slapping parts on".


But seriously though, you really do need to chill.